I am so embarrassed to go to St.Thomas.

Being multiracial, gay, and liberal, I can safely say that besides academics, UST has nothing to offer me. No other private college in the metro area is in the news as much as we are, and it is always for something negative.

If it weren't for the $17 thousand they give me a year to go here (apparently they need multiracial, gay students), I would stay as fucken far away as I could from these crazy ass catholic bigots.

That's just the message we want to send to students at a Catholic university: just sit back and let the ones in charge handle things. I mean, activism is hard! Especially during finals week!

As a St. Thomas alum, I just ask everyone to please know that not everyone there has lost their fucking minds. Some of us are actually quite sane and rational human beings who are capable of forming our own thoughts and viewpoints. Please don't judge us because the brain dead administration currently in place at St. Thomas seems to favor indoctrination over education.

Hey, Tom -- why don't you be a man of principle, give up your scholarship and put yourself through college. After all, given your own hatred and contempt for Catholics and the Catholic institution of learning you attend, your taking their money and the prestige of their degree is an act of rank hypocrisy.

Wow Tom. Way to make yourself look like a avaricious jackass and a moron. "Those evil, racist, homophobic Catholics only gave me 17,000 dollars a year! And they have they audacity to not let me volunteer at an abortion clinic for credit and violate the sacred tenets of their religion.Fuckers!"

I don't know why these 3 particular law student would choose to serve PLANNED PARENTHOOD, Catholic or not, you are suppporting their cause. Being a (not so smart)student of Univ. of St. Thomas / Catholic University obviously, it is not acceptable due to the NATURE of the institution.

To have their credits for serving PLANNED PARENTHOOD recognized, they SHOULD look for another school which is NONSECTARIAN rather than making a big senseless fuss on something that should not have been done in the first place.

And to think these 3 will be our future lawyers... WRONG SCHOOL GUYS!!!!! STOP WASTING EVERYONES TIME...

I'd rather keep siphoning their funds and keep a potential promising catholic out of their doors. Its me being proactive by not doing one thing.

Also, "Rhymes with Fucken Dumb", I bet it just burns you from inside that someone who could care less about a "prestigious" catholic college is coasting through for pennies based on his ethnicity. It sucks for you that my pointy eyes are worth more than your cracker ass skin.

Sleep well knowing that this faggot is getting a free ride from the catholics that hate him! I'll take a bong rip just for you ;-P

Hey, Tom-- be a broke man of principle! It is so unbelievable rational to decline a free education! Take the high road and turn down your completely free private school education, pay off school loans for the next ten years, and really stick it too the catholics! UST paying for your education is an even bigger "act of hypocrisy" which is quite typical of catholicism. Rhymes with right must be really comfortable up on their principle-filled high horse!

Tom and Patrick

You apparently made a foolish decision to attend UST, since its Catholicism is a problem for you. Your ad hominem attacks appeal to the ignorant, not the intelligent.

They give a free education to gays but have a problem when someone volunteers at a women's health clinic! It never ceases to amaze me that free-thinking and intelligent people can still be so conformed and blinded by the unbelievable hypocrisies of the catholic church. It's way nice to know that a catholic institution picks and chooses when they decide to abide by their own oh-so-sacred doctrines!

Jenn,

The ignorance of your ilk never ceases to amaze me. It has never been a precept of the Catholic Church to exclude someone from a college education because of their disordered sexual desires. It does not logically follow from the fact that the Church teaches that homosexuality is a disorder that it should therefore preclude homosexual students from enrolling at its educational institutions. Obviously you haven't taken a logic class. Or a Catholic theology class. I would suggest you learn Catholic teachings before constructing another straw man argument like the your pathetic attempt above.

It also doesn't follow from allowing a gay student to attend classes at UST that the administration should therefore give credit for volunteer work at Planned Parenthood. Jenn, I again assert that you are not a logician. Perhaps your argument is based on feelings. I'd suggest a better guide.

This is all very interesting, and your comments all appear to be very enlightened (as one has come to expect from a City Pages reader) (you can't hear the sarcasm, but it's there), but more newsworthy is the idea that someone down there at City Pages thought this story about the dean or St. Thomas was newsworthy at all.

To be fair, I'm starting from a different premise than those of you who think this story represents real journalism or an actual controversy. You start from the premise that St. Thomas University should be expected to dichotomize its decision and overlook the percentage of Planned Parenthood work that is condemned by the Catholic Church (performing abortions) in favor of focusing on the larger percentage of their work that is presumably lauded by the Catholic church (health testing and preventative health care). I simply disagree with this premise, which is probably why I find the story's conclusion of "controversy" illogical.

Here's a question that may illustrate a secondary flaw I see in the story: Would the St. Thomas story be newsworthy as a legitimate "controversy" if the school involved was not St. Thomas but rather Bethel University (or Northwestern College)? I suspect the latter schools would be aligned with St. Thomas on the issues, but, for some reason, I don't think you'd find their position controversial or newsworthy. Perhaps it’s because you would not consider Bethel or Northwestern one of the "major Twin Cities universities." Assuming that's not a dispositive distinction, I think we'd simply presume that a student attending Northwestern College would be aware that it was a conservative school (if not before attending, then definitely within a week or two of starting classes). The same student would (or reasonably should) expect that the proposition of a school like Northwestern College giving course credit for volunteering at a Planned Parenthood clinic would be laughable. Similarly, a story suggesting some inherent controversy in Northwestern College's decision to deny such course credit would be, in my opinion, ill-conceived, uncontroversial and out of touch.

But I understand the confusion the law student must feel. And it's reasonable for her to feel confused, because, after all, it's a confusing world out there in academia. For instance, Macalester College, a school with loose ties to the Presbyterian Church, reflects few of the ideals professed by that church, and is, so far as I can tell, the epitome of what it means to be a "liberal" or "academically free" private institution of higher learning. Perhaps it is in the name of academic freedom or promotion of this loosely defined "marketplace of ideas" that Hamline University Law School reflects little or no connection to the Methodist Church, the denomination from whence it apparently came. An early Harvard College brochure (circa 1643) described its purpose: "To advance Learning and perpetuate it to Posterity; dreading to leave an illiterate Ministry to the Churches." (I'll credit Wikipedia with that quote and defer to history books to prove me wrong.) But the pilgrims and puritans of Harvard College, or the minister who started it, are now ancient history, and I suspect that course credit may be given at Harvard for volunteerism at Planned Parenthood. And perhaps you'd be correct in concluding that Harvard’s denial of such credit might be controversial. So this confused law student may be onto something.

Maybe she’s right, maybe the "marketplace of ideas" over at St. Thomas hit a couple of quarters (or years) of negative growth (which I think is the textbook definition of an official "recession in the marketplace of ideas"). But I think the journalist’s obligation (your obligation) is to understand the distinctions that exist between the St. Thomases and the Macalesters of the academic world and to allow both schools the freedom to simply be who they are. That would be academic freedom. Granted, there are deadlines and such, but journalists need to understand a school’s origins and ideals before being critical simply for the sake of being critical.

What I think the story illustrates is that this law student should have done a little more research before she applied at St. Thomas. Therein lays her academic freedom. She was free to attend any law school that would admit her, and she was free to choose any school, public or private, based on her personal views and standards. But her attendance at St. Thomas is clearly a privilege, not a right. And when she signed up with a Catholic university, she should not profess disbelief when they act like one.

But should St. Thomas be different from more conservative schools? Why is their position controversial when it would be expected at a Bethel University or a Northwestern College? Is it because we expect "more" from St. Thomas? Is it because we want St. Thomas to focus less on its Catholic roots and more on a forward-thinking academic future? Perhaps we're bothered by a private university with a huge endowment and academic success when those resources are provided only to those who can stomach the Catholic doctrines that accompany them. Maybe St. Thomas shouldn’t follow doctrines. Maybe they should be more like Harvard, with all its success and prestige (and a better library). Maybe St. Thomas shouldn’t stand up for the Catholic church so much.

But maybe Catholic universities should be entitled to act Catholic. Maybe we should expect to see priests and nuns walking around on campus. Maybe they should be allowed an ornate cathedral on the premises. Maybe they should be entitled to hang on the Pope’s every word. Maybe we should expect them to actually follow some of the doctrines outlined by the Vatican or to allow those doctrines to impact behavior (or which volunteer hours they count for course credit). Maybe when these schools do act like this, we shouldn't find it controversial but predictable.

I think it’s axiomatic that the Catholic Church is entitled to take a position on abortion. Moreover, I think it's equally reasonable to grant to the Catholic Church the religious freedom to stand up for some practices and to condemn or reject others. Applying these same principles to a Catholic university, it should be expected (by students and the public) that these universities might (or should) adhere to these same doctrines.

Which . . . brings us back around to our beloved Planned Parenthood. As for Planned Parenthood, I understand the position: they provide health services other than abortions. Maybe they’re not all bad. I get that. But it does not follow that a Catholic university should be expected to overlook Planned Parenthood's controversial and divisive role in providing abortion services, simply because Planned Parenthood also provides some other services (which, in most respects, are provided by hospitals, health clinics and crisis pregnancy centers). The elephant in the room (and the story) is not in the percentages, but the practices. If the Catholic Church takes a stand against abortion as a practice, then it's reasonable for society (and students) to expect a Catholic university to do the same.

Anywho, it looks like someone needs to take a day or two off and come back to work ready to make the most of his/her second chance to give us real journalism and not a contrived story about a tempest in a tea kettle.

anonymous-
I was never questionning UST from allowing homosexual students from getting an education, but providing a full-fledged scholarship to someone they consider "immoral" is beyond me. UST is more than happy to provide free education to increase their diversity but they better not have sex, get married, or adopt. Good thing they hold their own clergy to the same ideals! But what do I know, I only went to catholic mass every sunday for twenty years. Maybe I was too focused on the meaning of "love thy neighbor" and didn't pay attention to the ever-changing stances of their acceptance of homosexuals.

And since you are too cowardly too leave your own name, I suggest you refrain from questionning anyone else's theological and logistical background.

Tom,

If you feel St. Thomas has nothing to offer you, it has nothing to do with your ethnicity or sexual orientation. It's because you're seeking a school that agrees with every political position you hold. The Catholic Church is the most multi-ethnic faith in the world, and nobody cares that you're gay. But if you want the law school to somehow come out in support of gay marriage or other such nonsense, and if you think anything short of that is hate, then you have some serious intellectual progress to make in your own life.

HAHA! What all of you wrote is just too rich!!! I think I might just drop out, pay for my education on my own at a state school and forget the whole thing... Then again, I like free money and can freely hate wherever I attend school.

GOD DAMN the Catholics get up in arms about this shit! I thought only liberals and free thinkers read City Pages. Guess the wackass watch dog groups keep an eye on the liberal media too.

I'd like to quote matthew on this
--"Maybe St. Thomas shouldn’t follow doctrines. Maybe they should be more like Harvard, with all its success and prestige"

I know you are entitled to your own opinion but before you make comparisons you have to think things through when try to make a point which is obviously very unclear. UST IS an institution with a religious foundation ergo, the "doctrines" are in place. On the otherhand, HARVARD is a nonsectarian ergo, no religion so no sense comparing. They both strive to give quality education like every law school in US.

"Maybe St. Thomas shouldn’t stand up for the Catholic church so much"
--This is an IDIOTIC remark. Can you please read what you write or blog it on your own page instead?!

"our beloved Planned Parenthood. As for Planned Parenthood, I understand the position: they provide health services other than abortions. Maybe they’re not all bad. I get that. But it does not follow that a Catholic university should be expected to overlook Planned Parenthood's controversial and divisive role in providing abortion services, simply because Planned Parenthood also provides some other services"

--Beloved? by who? by YOU. Are you joking??? Not all bad?? Services other than abortion?(So If they give good health to 99 women and aborted 1 fetus, they 99 good deeds will make up for the death of that fetus)
--Simply because... other services??
there is nothing simple about killing.

I hope you're not a writer because you make no sense. It was one long jabbering, paragraph after paragraph which was never ending yet made no sense at all. Waste of space and time.

I went to St. Thomas, and frankly I am embarrassed for us. Look at how St. Thomas students and alum are treating one another just on this blog? For me, this controversy is part of a bigger picture -- the responsibility of respectful dissent regardless of how you feel about this issue. We can be activists fighting for what we believe, but still remain respectful of one another. Isn't that part of being a good human being, Catholic or not, anyway???? I am not trying to be on a high horse, but liberal or conservative, these types of negative responses are what cause hate and wars - just look at history.