John Medeiros, Amy Koch gay apology author, answers his critics

• Mr Medeiros. PLEASE PLEASE keep talking

• I am a part of the gay community. This letter was funny and well written. It highlighted her hipocracy very well. Frankly I don't care if u or anyone else thought it was mean. Sometimes nasty people deserve a little NASTY back. Amy isn't sorry. She's sorry she got caught.

• We meet again, Mr. Gisleson. How are you, one of our favorite anti-Semitic "F**k Israel" former bloggers doing these days? Siding with the Hellenists now?

• Are you a member of the GLBT community?

• Mr Medeiros---You could have done much more for your community by knowing when to shut up.

• ooooo, I'm so scared, especially of your literary skills...."F' the conservatives", is that the best you can come up with????

• IIRC, Clinton didn't base his political image on 'protecting the sanctity of marriage' from same-sex couples. Koch did. Some of the language directed at her has been vitriolicly mysogynist- sex, appearence and size-related insults don't add anything to the argument. But it's not sexist to call her a duplicitus, manipulative hypocrite who trampled all over her marriage vows whilst accusing others of damaging marriage- it's accurate.

• This is far less an issue of the right of Gays to marry than it is an issue of Sexism.  Men in similar situations, FOR EXAMPLE PRESIDENT CLINTON; how quickly the great Minnesota populace forgets.  If a man does "IT," he's forgiven, re-elected, after all he's a man and they do these things or what ever.  Where are the women in this state in their outrage at how the Party and Media has treated Amy Koch.

• Did you work to ban straight marriages, declaring them to be a threat to your relationship, whilst at the same time cheating on your partner? Relationships sometimes fail. And it's not always anyone's 'fault'. And the letter isn't so much about sneering at the failure of Koch's marriage, but about pointing out the hypocrasy she demonstrated in demonising a group of people as being threats to straight marriage whilst engaging in something that actually DID harm hers.

• Are you kidding me?  People didn't read this as satire?  People, even my people, are getting dumber and dumber.  Sigh.

• I am very proud of my son John Medeiros. He evidently said exactly what one hundred thousand people were thinking.

• Well put.

• I agree that there are many tactics that can come into play, as detailed in my own post. I am not opposed to satire, either -- but satire carries with it the burden of humor. I laugh at Colbert and Stewart. I laugh at Weird Al. I laugh at Sarah Silverman. I laugh, oftener than not, at the Onion. Heck, I even worked for Spy Magazine back in the day. I did not laugh at Medeiros's foaming-at-the-mouth rant, Therefore, mistakenly it seems, I concluded that it was not funny. At best I would call it a protracted example of the new "art" of snark, which I define as sarcasm minus the humor.

• I am very proud of my son John Medeiros and he evidently expressed so well  what at least a hundred thousand people were feeling.

• at green23. The point from your original dissent (i.e., whether I am a resident of Minnesota) isn't exactly clear, nor should it be a qualification for commenting. I didn't attack you. I responded to your question about productive forms of discourse and clarified that I am legally qualified to vote on the amendment. That's the furthest thing from an attack.

•  Wow. So asking if you live in Minnesota is exactly like saying that you have no brain? Is that really it? Interesting that, with your well-honed sensitivity, you did not bother to take issue with the person who actually DID say that you had no brain - which was tjswift. Since you are so fond of rational discourse, It makes me wonder why you attacked me and not the guy who dismissed everyone who disagreed with him as lefty moonbats, and compared them to small children. Apparently that's acceptable to you. Wow. Just wow.

• Come on, you can do better than that...that didn't even make any sense. If calling you out for being a lazy parent is childish, how childish is acting like someone who has yet to take an English class? I don't hate you, I just think that if your actual parenting style is the same as that to which you cop here, you are a terrible parent who is going to raise a moron. Overcoming the status-quo-embracing -thinking you're fostering is a colossal waste of time the rest of us have to undertake when we meet your kids grown up and they can't think critically...they just spit out horseshit they heard from Hannity because his bad haircut and glib dismissiveness remind them of daddy. "Not now son, I'm busy..."

•  I didn't say that you weren't qualified to vote on the Amendment. I said that I was *wondering if you were*. There are a lot of commenters drawn from Facebook and such that are not even residents of Minnesota, and they are overwhelmingly on the conservative side. Why that upset you is kind of weird. You hit on this ridiculous point further down, as well. As far as siding with Amy Koch, you said that the letter made it "easier to identify with his target than with Medeiros". Since the "target" was Amy Koch, perhaps you can see how I interpreted this as siding with Amy Koch. If you had been clearer, I would not have commented at all. Satire is a powerful weapon. It's obvious that you choose not to employ that weapon. There need not be only ONE tactic used in the struggle for marriage equality. Rather than dumping on your own side because some people choose not to do everything YOUR way, maybe you could just let others make their effort while you yours. We're dealing with a hard core of people who don't particularly believe that you should even be allowed to exist. Meanwhile, you worry over things like "tone" from the people defending you. No one ever won their civil rights in this country by saying "pretty please". Think about that instead of whining about how your poor feelings were hurt by someone asking if you lived in Minnesota.

• "Hopefully he'll find a teacher to foster his hunger to understand reason and you'll get in a boating accident or something." Another tactic of five year olds, when they don't get their way and have run out of excuses.... "oh, I hate you, I hate you!"... Off to bed little fellow. 

• You have missed the satire. That is: the conversation is not a pot-kettle-black exercise in: "How big a hypocrite is Amy?" is it, "If the argument used by Amy to justify her position denying a class of people a right is directly at odds with her own actions, how legitimate could such an argument be?" The answer is: It is not. Pointing out the fallacy by stating it certainly makes a point. Making a pious hypocrite state it through their own actions states it louder.

• If I were part of the gay community I don't think I would be thrilled about being represented by Mr. Medeiros's letter. It is non-sensical, juvenile, and not very well written. It needlessly inflates a simple bit of irony - that someone who claims to value the sanctity of marriage for political purposes violated that very sanctity by adultery - into a meaningless diatribe that does nothing to further the cause of gay marriage. Start a conversation it has, but is it the right conversation?

• Heh, it is fun to know that your kid is going to think you are a joke when he grows up. "My dad was a giant fucking child trying to raise a child by dismissing his curiosity in nature and reason...by the time I was 6 I knew he was doing it wrong. It's too bad he died in that fire in 2013. I would have loved to have thrown his myriad mistakes in his old wrinkled face."

• What were his points and how did you counter them?  Or did you, like so many ignorant parents, cast your child's reason and thoughtfulness aside in favor of the crutch of the ignorant parent: "because I said so", helping to breed another know-nothing with no respect for reasoned debate and a thirst for horseshit made-up crap from people they see as figures of authority (who are frequently uneducated hypocrites)? I have a feeling he made better arguments than you...yes, your five year old understands reason better than his parents. Hopefully he'll find a teacher to foster his hunger to understand reason and you'll get in a boating accident or something.

• to green23. "Keep telling anyone who doesn't completely agree with you that they lack a brain. That will surely convince them to vote as you wish." It seems that's exactly how you treat anyone with whom YOU disagree -- for example, suggesting that I am not "qualified to vote on the SSM Amendment in Minnesota." Sorry if you don't want my vote on your side, but I'll go ahead and vote against it anyway.

• Perhaps it was a thesis on Theseus, the founder of Athens.

• Thanks for your insights. I make further observations and reply to your comments above, as a reply to my own post.

• Thanks for your observations. I am in sympathy with your frustration. I make further observations and reply to your comments above, as a reply to my own post.

• No, that wasn't the case for me.

• I tend to go with my gut on things like this. Satire is great and Colbert and Stewart are geniuses at it. Medeiros's letter came across as sneering and mean-spirited. It's just a personal preference of style that I was weighing in on, nothing more than that. I also suspect that a video of Medeiros might have brought out the humor more. The extrapolations taken from my comment -- particularly that I am "siding" with Koch on the issue of the gay marriage amendment -- are off base. I don't know what qualifications green23 requires, but I'm legally entitled to vote on the marriage amendment and will oppose it. As for tactics that might be more productive, name-calling à la "Michelle Bachmann" below probably isn't it. I recall reading an article in the Economist, several years ago at this point, detailing the economic benefits of allowing same-sex marriage. Discussion of the separation of church and state is very productive (there was a great C-SPAN program on this topic over the weekend). In the religious arena, informed discussion of scripture is also productive. Satire also has its place ... for me, the letter (i.e., some combination of its language, context, choice of medium, place of publication, and timing) hit me the wrong way. Thanks for the pile-on! (Weak attempt at sarcasm.)

• Grant275: It is nice to see that a loving fundamentalist Christian can open his eyes to a different viewpoint and admit hypocrisy. It takes a big person to do that and shows what (in my own opinion) is the loving spirit of Christianity. We all have our blind points and we all benefit from a second look. Also, I send kudos to John Medeiros for his reasoned reply.

• Leave me and the other gays alone. If you don't get the satire of  Medeiros' letter you need a kick in the head.  All I want is a right to a civil contract with my partner. I'm not going to invade  your churches or fraternities. I only want the same rights you heteros can get at a drive-through in Vegas.

• NEVER apologize, it would only confirm that you had done something wrong!! She (they) deserve everything being thrown right back thru their glass houses!!

• Some people need to take supplements, as they are obviously irony-deficient...

• Oh for the love, I believe he was speaking for the entire gay community just as my as I believe it was an actual, heart-felt apology. Lighten up people!

•  Perhaps you should tell Rick to go to bed without any supper. That seems more in line with your "reasoning". Then you can imagine his response and giggle about it here, which will make you even more persuasive. Your child-rearing habits are simply not relevant to adults discussing same-sex marriage.

•  Great job! Keep telling anyone who doesn't completely agree with you that they lack a brain. That will surely convince them to vote as you wish. And what adult doesn't like being spoken down to as a child? Why don't you just tell everyone in the State to vote against SSM or you will take off your belt? Obviously, you think you've hit on a winning strategy here, given your analogy. I'm really glad that you're not on my side, frankly.

• You see much that is imaginary, O Tjswift.

• Uh oh, I meant YOUR gay relationship.

• Sorry you failed our gay relationship.  I believe it lasted longer than Newt Gingrich's second heterosexual marriage!

• The man has nothing to apologize for.  The conservatives in Minnesota (just like conservatives everywhere) are often homophobic and deliberately try to scapegoat societies problems onto convenient scape goats (like gays, undocumented immigrants, atheists, liberals, etc.).  They love to hate, and this was the perfect response.

• "you prove Medeiros' thesis (sic) " The (sic) *would* have fit behind my misspelling...but thanks for playing anyway, sport.

• Wit is still as sharp as a broken crayon I see Rick.

• Oh, you've misinterpreted. No one would deny barking moonbats have a voice, it's the brain found lacking.

• LOL, and all the lefty peepants dancing that followed my comment reminds me of what happens when he gets marched upstairs anyways! I can almost see you kicking your little feet!

• It seems that the MN GOP holds the entire gay and lesbian community in contempt. A bit of turnabout, especially using the conservative right's own hurtful words as a mirror, is more than due as repayment.

• Good for you, John. Though it's kinda depressing that you have to explain irony, satire and sarcasm. I guess there are those unfortunates who are comedically challenged.

• Mark, You're correct. The post set a new record for total number of comment (as well as Facebook Likes and Twitter retweets). Best, Kevin

•  I just wanted to point out that this is the first time "Otterberry" has posted using a disqus account. Interesting that this person sides with Amy Koch, though. Otterberry, please detail all of the more effective tactics that you have employed to "advance discourse" on the issue of SSM. I'm interested especially in how many of these techniques involve defending Republicans.  I'm also left wondering if you are qualified to vote on the SSM Amendment in Minnesota.

• And completely hypocritical, as you criticised the Facebook phenomenon. You wrote: "This article gets the award for the biggest AstroTurf commenter section of the year."  This was your comment on the Amy Koch article. Yet you gloat over "likes" from astroturf commenters in the WI state fair articles. As a black, evangelical, elderly, male Tea Party Republican you ARE on the fringe. 87k is not quite one-tenth as many votes as Mark Kennedy got when he lost to Amy Klobuchar in the Senate race. How many of those Facebook "likes" even live in Minnesota? You don't even know, do you? Virtually anyone can get get 87K Americans to agree with their opinions. Nearly five times as many "strongly supported" Dubya at the nadir of his term. So you're 1/5 as popular as Bush was in 2005, based on people who barely know your views, and have Facebook accounts. You're 1/5 the hero Bush was, and you didn't even like Bush at that point, or so you say. And the majority of those "likes" are from racists who like any black person who criticises other blacks.

• Rumor is that Amy Koch in an attempt to distance herself from the "inappropriate relationship" scandal, will change her name legally to Any Kock.

• Your panties get in a bunch over sarcasm?   I prefer the sarcasm,humor, and logic of those for gay marriage over the hyprocrisy and hate from those evil asshoels that oppose gay marriage.  Amy Koch better hope there is no hell because she is an evil fucking bitch for what she did to gay people while commiting adultry.   All the right wingers are monsters for using the government to tell people who and how to love.  

• As someone who also survived a failed (gay) relationship of ten years, I ask if you've considered that perhaps one of the reasons why it failed is because it was not allowed to be recognized or validated by others?

• 'Discourse'?  What 'discourse' are we in the GLBT community expected to have with people who yank out obscure scripture as their justification for discriminating against us?  Or make some vague noises about 'natural law' which has absolutely nothing to do with marriage in the first place?  Or who keep repeating that 'marriage is threatened!' but can never explain how, or why? Or go out and compare us to pedophiles, alcoholics, etc. etc. etc? Discourse requires two-way communication - none is EVER forthcoming from the Right-wing fundamentalists behind legislation like the anti-Gay 'marriage' ammendment that would be denounced immediately if applied to any other minority (ethnic, racial or religious).

• I was one of the people who disliked the mixture of Schadenfreude and sarcasm in the original letter. As someone who survived a failed (gay) relationship of ten years, it was easier to identify with his target than with Medeiros. Sarcasm perforce conveys contempt and I don't believe that sarcasm, on either side, advances discourse.

• Hmmm.....not sure, I think it's Kerk but I have an email to his 5 year old to confirm.

•  Great analogy. I especially appreciate how it puts you and your wife as the adults with authority, and the rest of us as children without a voice. "Do as I say" might work on five-year-olds, but it's unlikely to work on adult voters in an election. It's going to be a close vote on the Amendment, so we need assholes like you telling us to fall into line as often as possible if we are going to win.

• Medeiros' piece was brilliant, but the comments were insane so I'll praise him here. Just curious, but it sounds like he may hold the all time record for most comments at City Pages. I sure don't remember any other 1,000+ comment articles since Karl got you guys online.

• At least you got your name right... LOL

• One last note:Amy's little "indiscretion " was hidden from public eyes since last SEPTEMBER. Before the election.

• While not perhaps, as eloquent as yours, I offer my perspective on the marriage amendment Great, Just Great:You have a constitutional amendment barring same-sex marriage being promoted by a party the majority whip of whom has been confronted by her own party on charges of "an inappropriate relationship with a Senate staffer, "Supported by a figurehead organization representing a religion that has a current history of shielding pedophiles within it's organizationAnd a political group that has recruited newt Gingrich to sign their Purity pledge". 

• Hey Kirk - maybe your 5 year old can do your math, too.  The .01% is actually .03% but, like the word THESIS, that must hurt.  My advice, stick with smaller numbers and trisyllabic words (if you need help with that, ask your son).

• Swiftee, If true, you have a darn smart 5-year old. He must be from your wife's prior marriage ... or adopted.

• John:  As a part-time resident of MN and full time queer, THANK YOU for your wise words in your original letter and in this follow up.  Knowing a few people who know you (Hi Frank and Chris), I admire the breadth of your knowledge, passion and journey.  Politicians are public servants, receiving their salary from the public, and are given leadership roles to guide the public.  When they steer us wrong, in their public or private lives, they are not immune or protected from public response.  More of us need not only declare when the Emperor has no clothes more often, but to comment on the sight they create parading around naked.  As a pacifist, I only ask you remove your stilletos if it comes to an actual kicking match.

• perhaps the 5 year old can spell THESIS?

• SO PROUD TO BE GAY IN MINNESOTA!  Thank you, John Medeiros!  :)    

• Excellent Retort!!!!

• Because he's gay?

• all I can say is Ha ha....F' the conservatives...

• Incoherent blather from the Far Right. Excellent, you prove Medeiros' thesis (sic) for him. More, please.

• I've seen that letter before somewhere...oh, yeah...my five year old son's thesus on why he should get to stay up late because his mom and I do.

• And thank you, John, for your kind-spirited message. As a born and bred fundamentalist Christian who considered myself very loving, I needed my grown children to help me see my own hypocrisies through the beauty of satire and irony. Laughter can heal. 

• Hey, wait. Is this the same Kirk that brags about all of the likes he's received for his trolly comments on here...? Nah...

• Why should any Minnesotan look to Koch, a pig in heat, as the arbiter of the legitimacy of their personal relationships?

• "87,000 Likes on Facebook," oh my God! It managed to reach, and was appreciated by, the kook fringe 0.01% of the population.

TotalComments: 74