Guns make you safer? Minneapolis gun permit holder robbed with own pistol

Mjminmn

I think we should ban all guns. Then we would have no crime because sociopathic people would no longer feel the need to commit crimes. That & Dr. J wouldn't have anything else to be angry at.

Dr. J

1 Like

Works in Japan, Germany, England and every other civilized place on Earth. Facts and science back me up. You keep your head in the sand and refuse to change your mind.

Badtastic

I had problems yesterday, not today. The UK does not count homicides until someone has been arrested, tried, convicted, and the appeals process has been completed. If the process does not go to completion – there is no murder counted. And of course, if the process does complete the “murder” is counted in the year the process completes.

Less murders and rapes is great. More aggravated assaults, sexual abuse, robbery, invasion, kidnappings...are not great.

Badtastic

No They DONT!!!! Jesus, research it a little bit. The facts are out there and they deny your claims. I know you are spouting the same rhetoric other people have told you, but research it just a little. You are making an ass of yourself

effeminate dad

That dude is the biggest sociopathetic projector a garbage can ever produced. It's useless battling him. Anytime you argue with an idiot you always lose. I think the best thing you can do is break down his methodology one time in language a child could understand, and hopefully he'll findthat he really is as retarded as everyone always told him he is.

Badtastic

Right enough.

Stan

I'ts OK, Badtastic... Dr. J is really dumb. Dumb enough to believe that Austria is a county in Texas near the Mexican border, anyways. You can't fix stupid, so we should probably just let him be stupid. He'll stick a fork in an electrical socket soon enough, and we won't have to hear from him ever again.

Dr. J

1 Like

I notice you aren't having any trouble posting now liar. I have cited the murder rates in the United States, England, Germany and Japan multiple times. Those are called facts. Our murder rate is over 5 times greater than England. It's 12.5 times greater than Japan. You admiited at minimum the United States has a higher murder and rape rate than England. On what planet do you think less murders and rapes is a bad thing? I can't even think of a bigger jackass argument than that.

Dr. J

You gun rights people are the biggest idiots I've ever heard. You can't win the argument using facts because the facts are strict gun control lowers the violent crime rate. England, Germany, Japan, and every other first world nation with strict gun control backs up this argument. You can't win with logic because having access to guns doesn't keep the government tanks, drones and nukes in check. Just admit you morons all have tiny penises so you need your gun to make you feel like a big man. That's why you drive a truck or SUV and talk tough on the internet. Your need to forget your micro penis gets women and children killed every day in the inner city and Mexico. Shame on you people. You have blood on your hands because you refuse to enact sensible gun laws. The gun manfacturers want to sell guns to criminals and children, that helps them make a profit. They use the NRA and stupid people to make it easy for them to do that. Why can't the FBI have a centralized database of guns and gun owners to make it extremely easy to track the origin of a gun used in a crime? You idiots claim you don't want to be the victim of a crime so why aren't you willing to make it easy to keep guns out of the hands of criminals?

effeminate dad

This is an easy way to break it down: guns don't kill people, people kill people. Just as drugs don't kill people, people kill people. People can be deadly while carrying either, yet you are pro drug, anti gun. That doesn't make sense. That's like you saying that you're not racist, but you hate black people. That just goes to show how polarized, childish and ignorant you are, fake michelle bachman.

Badtastic

" You can't win with logic because having access to guns doesn't keep the government tanks, drones and nukes in check"

So you are also advocating that the goverment, with all their arms, is a danger to us. you want them stripped of weapons.

Badtastic

"Crime will go down. It's common fucking sense."

Really? ---Let's take Britain for example. According to CBS and The Mirror ( A British publication) Since the ban on firearms, "Except for murder and rape, it admitted, "Britain has overtaken the US for all major crimes."... You are just trading murder for an increase in all other crimes. Yes, sooo safe.

I know it seems counter intuitive...but crime rates actually rise the stricter gun control gets. If you do any research on the subject really...you will find that.

Al_Franken_Says

You really are a idiot, Have you ever tried to buy a gun? You have to be approved by the FBI!

Joe

actually it's the BATF, but you are correct. You get vetted *every single time*. Takes about an hour and I've seen people turned away because they came back denied.

Dr. J

Do you have to be approved by the FBI if you buy the gun at a gun show? This is known as the gun show loophole. If you read a newspaper once in a while you might actually know this but sadly you feel the need to be stupid. Google gun show loophole and then change your thinking because you are wrong. You may apologize when you read this because you are either stupid or a liar.

From Wikipidia about Columbine Massacre:"In the months prior to the attacks, Harris and Klebold acquired two 9 mm firearms and two 12-gauge shotguns. A rifle and the two shotguns were bought by a friend named Robyn Anderson(18 years old) at the Tanner Gun Show in December 1998.[19] Harris and Klebold later bought a handgun from another friend named Mark Manes for a sum of $500."

Fttgg

You have to be approved if you buy from a gun dealer at a gun show (most of the guys with a table are dealers). Otherwise, you're buying from a private citizen and no, you don't need to perform a background check. Gun show loophole is a misnomer, however. It makes it sound like there is some loophole. In reality, it refers to the freedom you have as a private citizen to sell your property to another citizen.

Dr. J

Badtastic you do realize way more parents were critical of gun laws and the NRA right? Other parents of the Columbine victims asked the NRA not to hold their national convention in Denver and condemned gun laws. This is why I cite facts like Harris and Klebold took advantage of loopholes to buy guns. I was proving the existance of loopholes. The argument was about if the Feds regulated every gun purchase which they don't. So good try at paying attention. You almost made it stupid.

Badtastic

The Columbine shootingsOn Thursday, May 27, 1999, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, addressed a subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee. He pointed out that the first recorded act of violence occurred when Cain slew his brother Abel:

“The villain was not the club he used. Neither was it the ... the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain’s heart.”

He went on to say,

“In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA [National Rifle Association]. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA because I don’t believe that they are responsible for my daughter’s death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended.”

He added,

“When something as terrible as Columbine’s tragedy occurs, politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan [perpetrators of the Columbine massacre] would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre.... Political posturing and restrictive legislation are not the answers.”

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gods man....Do you want me to stop. here is the father of a victim of this incident, stating the facts

Badtastic

before the Columbine shootings, Congress imposed a school-zone gun ban which prohibited firearms within 1,000 feet of any school, under the mistaken belief that potential killers obey gun-control laws. That law didn’t deter the two perpetrators of the Columbine massacre, but it did get Joel Myrick in trouble.

Gun control advocates argue that the police are there to protect us from criminals and the military from invaders. But in 1992, the National Guard and police refused to engage hoodlums during the Los Angeles riots, effectively abandoning people to their fate. Nevertheless many Korean merchants successfully used firearms with high-capacity magazines, which Congress has since banned, to fend off rioters. Their stores still stood after the riots.

Al_Franken_Says

The laws have changed, I went to the gun show at the state fair grounds last month and everyone had to be checked by the FBI before a sale could be made.

Badtastic

"So Badtastic you admit there is a huge loophole that criminals are exploiting but you don't want to stop it?"I want to stop it. But not by banning ALL guns idiot.

"Stop being such a stupid liar Badtastic." Do you know what the word "liar" means?

"You admit it exist and is a problem yet you don't think we should fix it"I never said that part should not be fixed.

" cause you have a small penis" It's above average

"and need to feel manly while driving your subaru. "That's like saying I need to feel manly while riding my completely normal bike.Since when has a freaking subaru been a symbol of male machismo? You fail...yet again.

Dr. J

"What they don't say is that those sales would have to be between two private individuals at the gun show. Therefore these guns can be sold with or without guns shows."

So Badtastic you admit there is a huge loophole that criminals are exploiting but you don't want to stop it? Stop being such a stupid liar Badtastic. You just agreed with my entire premise on the gun show loophole. You admit it exist and is a problem yet you don't think we should fix it cause you have a small penis and need to feel manly while driving your subaru.

Badtastic

Stop reading Wikipedia. It is not the site to gather information from. They teach this to every one who has been educated in a decent school

Badtastic

What anti-freedom, anti-gunners claim is that at gun shows you can just go in and buy a gun without a background check. What they don't say is that those sales would have to be between two private individuals at the gun show. Therefore these guns can be sold with or without guns shows.

An FFL (Federal Firearms License) dealer can not sell a gun to you at a gun show or anywhere else without requiring a background check and doing all of the paperwork he/she would have to perform at their own store front.

Badtastic

You are still ignoring the fact that Mexico, despite strict gun laws, obtains guns. Yes, a majority of them might be from us. But implement the same laws here, and criminals will still find a way to obtain them. "I want to make America the new Japan. they had 7 gun murders in the entire country in 2009"That is wrong. They had 1,097 in 2009, which is the lowest recorded murder rate in any post-war year. It is an exception.People will kill people with or without guns. It is just as easy to die from a knife wound, but in a country without guns, I wouldn't have a way to protect myself from a knife wielding intruder. How about we try to be like Florida, whose murder rate dropped 52% once concealed carry was initiated, or Vermont, which is one of the safest states in the country and not coincidentally, one of the most lax on gun control laws.“The 2nd amendment is a relic, clinging to it results in the murders of innocent women and children.”

Oh….simply WOW.” Lets go over some real stats:

1. As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse

2. guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense

3. only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal

4. A comprehensive national study determined in 1996 that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealed firearms.

5. States which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%

6. Kennesaw, GA. In 1982, this suburb of Atlanta passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate subsequently dropped 89%

7. In 1979, the Carter Justice Department found that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32% were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of the attempted rapes were actually successful

Mexico would have gotten their guns from somewhere else, if not from us.

Badtastic

"I want to make America the new Japan. theyhad 7 gun murders in the entire country in 2009"

That is wrong. They had 1,097 in 2009, which isthe lowest recorded murder rate in any post-war year. It is an exception.

People will kill people with or without guns. Itis just as easy to die from a knife wound, but in a country without guns, Iwouldn't have a way to protect myself from a knife wielding intruder. How about we try to be like Florida, whose murderrate dropped 52% once concealed carry was initiated, or Vermont, which is oneof the safest states in the country and not coincidentally, one of the most laxon gun control laws.

“The 2nd amendment is a relic, clinging to itresults in the murders of innocent women and children.”

Oh….simply WOW.” Lets go over some real stats:

1. As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year todefend themselves against sexual abuse

2. guns are used 1.5 million times annually forself-defense

3. only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved aninnocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal

4. A comprehensive national study determined in1996 that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealedfirearms.

5. States which passed concealed carry laws reducedtheir murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robberyby 3%

6. Kennesaw, GA. In 1982, this suburb of Atlantapassed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in thehouse. The residential burglary rate subsequently dropped 89%

7. In 1979, the Carter Justice Department foundthat of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32% were actually committed. But whena woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of the attempted rapes wereactually successful

Mexico would have gotten their guns from somewhere else, ifnot from us.

This is what it feels like when you get served...

Badtastic

"You can't win the argument using facts because the facts are strict gun control lowers the violent crime rate"

---Let's take Britain for example. According to CBS and The Mirror ( A British publication) Since the ban on firearms, "Except for murder and rape, it admitted, "Britain has overtaken the US for all major crimes."... You are just trading murder for an increase in all other crimes. Yes, sooo safe.

"That's why you drive a truck or SUV and talk tough on the internet."I drive a subaru and you are the onyl one talking tough on the internet. Guns level the playing field. People like you would rather see us purposefully place ourselves at a disadvantage when face with an enemy that outguns us.

You are the biggest idiot on this board. Luckily, everyone here knows it too.

Dr. J

"I would rather be robbed than murdered or raped any day." I hope all three happen to you.

I'm glad sane people like you get to have a gun. You are a liar who I only started fighting with because you lied openly about what I said in a previous post. I won't be responding to your stupidity anymore because you cite a bunch of pro gun nonsense. By the way, notice all my facts were cited from 2009, the most recent year crime stats are available? Well no one wants to read your stupid nonsense about what gun control was like in the 1930s. I can tell you have a lot of rage which is scary since you have a gun but don't like your micro penis and ugly car get you down. Life will get better someday.

Badtastic

"I'm glad sane people like you get to have a gun"I wasnt saying that to be mean. Its just Darwinism. You need to be extinct.

"you cite a bunch of pro gun nonsense"At least I cite something. And since when is researched fact "nonsense"

"because you lied openly about what I said in a previous post."Ive asked numerous times for you to give me an example of this. You have opted to remiain silent. You have no example of me lying about anything.

You spout a bunch of anti-gun rhetoric with no factual basis. I am glad you have decided to stop spouting bullshit.

Dr. J

First off you are lying about the overall crime rate of England. But even if you are telling the truth I think its pretty funny you think increases in rape and murder are no big deal. Considering the United States has 5 times the murder rate of England I'd say they have a better system in place than we do. I fairly certain the biggest idiot on the board is the guy who thinks increased rape and murder is a fair trade off with owning a gun.

Badtastic

But the record of strict gun regulations in other countries is quite dismal. In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents were rounded up and exterminated. In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians were exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938. and from 1939 to 1945 13 million Jews and others were exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935; from 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents were exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964, and from 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians were exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970 — from 1971 to 1979, 300,000 people were exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956, and from 1975 to 1977 one million educated people were exterminated.

In a more recent example, the British Broadcasting Company reported on May 10, 2000, that the United Nations convinced the people of Sierra Leone to turn in their private weapons for UN protection during the recent civil war. The result was disastrous. The people ended up defenseless when UN troops, unable to protect even themselves, were taken hostage by rebels moving on the capital of Freetown.

Estimates run as high as 56 million people who have been exterminated in the 20th century because gun control left them defenseless.

OH MY GOD>>>>>>>>Does this hurt you? It must hurt to get beaten into the ground so viciously.

Badtastic

"In Switzerland, every draft-age male is required to maintain a firearm in his home, yet the Swiss murder rate is only 15 percent of the U.S. rate"

What say you to this DR. J?

Badtastic

You...........have been served

Badtastic

In England, which has the strictest gun-control laws of the developed nations and which had outlawed all handguns and most firearms, the Sunday Express of June 20, 1999, reported,

“In recent months there have been a frightening number of shootings in Britain’s major cities, despite new laws [Firearms Act of 1997] banning gun ownership after the Dunblane tragedy. Our investigation established that guns are available through means open to any criminally minded individual.”

The Manchester Guardian of January 14, 1999, lamented that their city was being called “Gunchester.” Police sources were quoted as saying that guns had become “almost a fashion accessory” among young criminals. Some gangs are armed with fully automatic weapons. The police risk confronting teenagers on mountain bikes brandishing machine guns. A 1971 Cambridge University study showed that in heavily gun-controlled Great Britain, “the use of firearms in crime was very much less before 1920 when Britain had no controls of any sort.”

Badtastic

England and Wales was ranked fifth for burglaries, with a rate of 1,157.7 per 100,000 people.

This compared with 714.4 for the US, and was worse than Slovenia (902.9), the Czech Republic (523.3), and Turkey (216.9).

The figures also showed England and Wales had a worse robbery rate (188.7 per 100,000) than the US (146.4), Poland (92.2), Slovenia (31.5) and Turkey (28.5).

For rapes, England and Wales (25.6) was ranked eighth, worse than Norway (18), Germany (9.9) and Poland (5.2).

Badtastic

"If you clicked other results in the google search you would realize your little story was quite a controversy"Yes it was, until UK papers conceded. it was only a controversy because British media was upset that the comment was made.

"you would learn that England and the United States report crime differently so what might be a crime in England isn't a crime in the United States."Exactly! and thats why your murder rates that you keep quoting are actually working against you.

That's why smart people generally focus on the murder rate since murder is the same all over. O..M...G. Worst argument ever.

"Nice try though stupid liar. "Again, I havent lied once.

"I would rather be robbed than murdered or raped any day." I hope all three happen to you.

Dr. J

I actually did google what you are saying. That's why I know you are lying. If you clicked other results in the google search you would realize your little story was quite a controversy since idiots like you like to use it as a pro gun argument. If you were smart enough to read more than one article before forming an opinion you would learn that England and the United States report crime differently so what might be a crime in England isn't a crime in the United States. That's why smart people generally focus on the murder rate since murder is the same all over. That's why people find it shocking that the United States has 5 x the murder rate of England. Nice try though stupid liar. Plus you are a huge idiot if you think a few more robberies is worse than a few more murders. I would rather be robbed than murdered or raped any day.

Badtastic

I am not lying. Dude, just google "overall crime in england worse than america". I cant paste a link, it keeps blocking my comment. (Maybe that's why I couldnt yesterday too) The first result even discusses it. There are hundreds.

"I'd say they have a better system in place than we do."Yes, Im sure with their extremely high crime rate, it is a better system. Whatever. Im sure this is a scientific insight of yours with all variables considered.

I think rape and murder is a fair trade? wow I didn't even know that about myself.

Badtastic

I am not lying. Try Google. First page:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new... Theres hunderds more.

They didnt say rape and murder inscreased. They were already low in England, but banning guns raised all other crimes.

"Considering the United States has 5 times the murder rate of England I'd say they have a better system in place than we do. "

Yes, Im sure thats a scientific insight with all variables considered.

Hazmatpat

According to Martens, the loss of a wallet and broken arm are but a small price to pay in the name of "gun violence prevention" - at least the criminal commiting felony assault wasn't harmed! I don't believe anyone has ever stated that the right to carry a firearm is somehow going to save them from every possible situation. Its telling that this is the first and only incident of someone's lawfully carried pistol being used against them in 9 years of the Minnesota Personal Protection Act (Carry Law).

JonnyBeGood

Guns do make us safer, but alas, this guy was reportedly attacked by surprise and was not able to use his weapon. The fact remains that the concealed weapon didn't prevent the thug from attacking, but had the victim had the chance to engage and then shoot the guy, we would be up in arms about racist attacks.

misterhorse

Funny people want to compare gun violence between US and Japan. Gangsters in Japan have business cards. Criminals in the US are just straight up thugs. The robber here is really lucky he didn't get shot thirty seven times by overzealous cops, and the guy packing heat will probably figure out that he needs to watch his ass if he's going to be packing heat.

Dr. J

Please explain how the Japanese Yakuza with estimated 90,000 members nationwide is so different than gangs in the United States. According to Japanese police the Yakuza is involved in drug trafficing, human trafficing, extortion, kidnapping, and murder for hire which pretty much sounds identical to what gangs in the USA do. Despite the Yakuza Japan has a low crime rate since there are strict gun control laws which make it difficult for criminals to get guns. By the way, the Yakuza has been around since the 1700s so some might consider them a bit more of a problem than gangs in the United States.

Badtastic

Oh….simply WOW.” Lets go over some real stats:

1. As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse

2. guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense

3. only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal

4. A comprehensive national study determined in 1996 that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealed firearms.

5. States which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%

6. Kennesaw, GA. In 1982, this suburb of Atlanta passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate subsequently dropped 89%

Mexico would have gotten their guns from somewhere else, if not from us.

Badtastic

So you are now admitting that Japan has a serious crime problem? Why have you abandoned your position?

Badtastic

HAHAHA Well versed argument there pal. I present researched facts without cursing and IM the troll? Sure buddy.

"Are you really so stupid you don't understand what I'm saying stupid? "...Too many "stupid"s.

"Stupid little liar."Tell me again what lies I made please.

"You aren't smart enough to argue with logic or facts "I am arguing using logic and verifiable facts. I am very smart. i am destroying your arguments.

"so you just troll and lie. Fucking pathetic. "So insulting. Im hurt. I think this sentence is perfect trolling. Destroying your arguments wth fact is not trolling kiddo

Dr. J

Stop trolling stupid. Are you really so stupid you don't understand what I'm saying stupid? Stupid little liar. You aren't smart enough to argue with logic or facts so you just troll and lie. Fucking pathetic.