Chris Kluwe wants to debate Mary Franson

fransonvskluwe.jpg
Vikings punter Chris Kluwe plans to extend a formal invite to Mary Franson.
Minnesota Vikings punter Chris Kluwe wants to debate Rep. Mary Franson, R-Alexandria, over her opposition to gay marriage.

SEE ALSO:
Rep. Mary Franson: Chris Kluwe wants "to undermine traditional values"
Chris Kluwe playing bass at Music for Marriage Equality benefit tonight

As we reported yesterday, Franson recently posted a call to arms on a her Facebook page, claiming she was "under attack by those who oppose traditional marriage."

"Because I am standing on my principles the leftists who oppose marriage between 1 man and 1 woman are now funneling money to my opponent," the post continued. "I need YOUR HELP NOW to counter their attacks."

Franson included embeds of four tweets alongside the message, one of them Kluwe's. Not one to back down from a fight, Kluwe quickly took the offense on his Twitter account.

"Basically, I was pointing out the fact that it is very hypocritical of her to ask for a return to traditional values, when traditional values say she should have been in the kitchen, and not in office," Kluwe told City Pages yesterday. "Traditional values doesn't just mean what you want it to mean. It can also mean some pretty bad stuff."

Kluwe says he's been talking to Minnesotans for Equality -- a group opposing the constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage -- about organizing a debate between him and Franson.

"We're thinking of actually extending her an official invitation to see if she wants to do a debate," says Kluwe. Asked if he thought she'd accept, Kluwe laughed. "I don't think she will."

Calls to Franson yesterday were not returned, but we'll update if she responds.


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203 comments
farfromhome181
farfromhome181

Rule of  thumb was also a tradition. would Mary Franson like that tradition brought back?

There comes a time when all traditions should be looked at, scrutinized and eventually done away with due to changing times. This I believe is one of those outdated traditions. Marriage hasn't always been between one man and one woman. There is much history of men having more than one wife, acceptable in it's time. It's time to accept commited homosexual relationships into the fold of marriage!

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @chriswarcraft @mitchpberg @aaronley Way to misrepresent what he actually said. You are a liar.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Way to miss the point of my post. Facetiousness =/= lying. @ChrisWarcraft @mitchpberg @AaronLey

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks Well, he DID imply if you believe in a traditional value, that you need to live in that point in history. Right? @jinx_mchue

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks Nope, I'm not. Please elaborate, though. @jinx_mchue @AaronLey

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg @jinx_mchue @ChrisWarcraft the idea even varies from region to region. It even means not marrying outside of your race to some.

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg @jinx_mchue @ChrisWarcraft No, he said, not implied that "traditional values" means and has meant many different things.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Q: as some religious groups have come out against the marriage amendment, do you then also support the amendment? @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@ChrisWarcraft Look in the mirror, Mr. Self-proclaimed-definer-of-logic.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

(2/2) @Tryxt3rocks It does NOT, however, prevent people from passing/backing secular laws based on their religious beliefs. @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

(1/2) @Tryxt3rocks Let's put it this way: the 1st Amend. prevents the state from favoring a particular, specific religion. @mitchpberg

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks 2/2 Gun control, net neutrality, smoking bans, fluoridated water, Slavery - ALL involved the law "jamming" people. @jinx_mchue

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks OK - so by defintiion, laws *always* jam something down peoles' throats. And we do it all the time. 1/2 @jinx_mchue

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Not as much as arguments created from mind-reading. @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Actually, it is when the other party is making up crap out of thin air. @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg @jinx_mchue Circular arguments are tiresome.

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg @jinx_mchue Ok. Stating the obvious is not an argument.

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks Sigh if you want, but @jinx_mchue has a point. Unless a bill passes unanimously, it always "forces" something on someone.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Anyone can set any policy for any reason as long as they convince the majority to go along with them. @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Who said anything about "favored groups?" @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Of course, even anarchy relies on "forcing beliefs down others' throats," so I guess you're s.o.l. @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks If you don't want legislation to "force beliefs down other people's throats," then start advocating anarchy. @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @mitchpberg No, it isn't. But there can be no religious freedom if favored groups are allowed to set policy and not others.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks e.g. raising taxes is about "forcing beliefs down other people's throats." @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks ALL legislation is about "forcing beliefs down other people's throats." #undeniablefactoflife @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Neither is the 1st Amendment about the separation of religion and society. @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @mitchpberg <is ambivalent on the issue. Forcing your beliefs down others' throats by way of legislation is what I care about

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks And you obviously do care what I and @mitchpberg believe (or what you think we believe) on this issue.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks But you just rejected that fact by saying that no religious or irreligious people should make policy. @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks I reject you trying to read my mind and judging and condemning me based upon it. @ChrisWarcraft @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks So in other words, no one should decide public policy because everyone is one of them or others. Brilliant. @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @mitchpberg That's what I keep saying, O genius.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks The 1st Amendment protects and gives power to the citizens, not the government. @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg So what are you saying, exactly?

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @chriswarcraft @mitchpberg I could care less what you believe. I only reject you trying to legislate according to your beliefs.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Uh-huh. Trust me -- you're no Kreskin. More like Karnak. @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @mitchpberg nope, none of those. None of them should decide public policy.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks "Catholics? How about Baptists? Pentecostals? What about Mormons?" Yes. As well as atheists, Buddhists, Muslims... @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg @jinx_mchue The First Amendment is not just about freedom of speech, you know.

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @mitchpberg It's fairly apparent.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Irony. Seems like people like you a @ChrisWarcraft are trying to dictate what we should believe. Not "seems" -- IS. @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg no, they don't, and shouldn't. Who gets to decide? Catholics? How about Baptists? Pentecostals? What about Mormons?

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Oh, so as well as being a gamer, haircolorist and geek, you're a mind-reader, too? @mitchpberg

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks And wrong again! The First Amd prevents government from shutting people like @jinx_mchue and I up!

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @mitchpberg No, but that is where you are arguing from.

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks And that's just ludicrous. They have all sorts of place all over public policy.

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@jinx_mchue Insert reference to "Commerce Clause" @Tryxt3rocks

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @mitchpberg The entire reason for the First Amendment is so that people like you cannot dictate what others believe

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks "church (es) have no business in civic affairs." Be glad you weren't living when the Founding Fathers were around. @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Are you saying that the marriage amendment is only about religion? @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg No, because religious beliefs have no place in public policy. None whatsoever.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks As proven several times, as the world goes, so goes the U.S. We didn't invent gay "marriage." @mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg likewise, the church (es) have no business in civic affairs.

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg Yes, it is. As far as the separation of church and state is concerned that is. Government has no business in church affairs

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks "You would have a hell of a time forcing a church to accept anything they eschew" <insert derisive "HA!"> @mitchpberg

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks The 1st Amd will protect religious belief as well as the 2nd protected gun rights or the 4th upheld security in one's home.

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks And one argument for the Amendment is to make sure it *remains* "one hell of a time". Slippery slopes exist.

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks And you think the First Amendment is a protection there?

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg We don't have a Human Rights Commission here. You would have a hell of a time forcing a church to accept anything they eschew

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg Of course they will. People sue all the time. The whole reason for the First Amendment is to guard against such an occurence.

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks So you're saying government and trail laywers won't let it happen here, then? @jinx_mchue Seems short-sighted.

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@Tryxt3rocks @mitchpberg @jinx_mchue @chriswarcraft I fail to see your argument. The example you cite is not in the U.S.

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks Right, we don't have a litigious legal system or anything. @jinx_mchue

Believe_RoyGBiv
Believe_RoyGBiv

@Believe_RoyGBiv @Tryxt3rocks @jinx_mchue @mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft Chris has to face #adultery #disease #depression #youth #addiction

Believe_RoyGBiv
Believe_RoyGBiv

@Believe_RoyGBiv @Tryxt3rocks @jinx_mchue @mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft Chris now has to face the world supporting #HIV #Suicide #brokenness

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg @jinx_mchue @ChrisWarcraft That's Canadia. I don't care about them...

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks See the Canadian Human Rights commissions vs. churches that act against it. @jinx_mchue

Believe_RoyGBiv
Believe_RoyGBiv

@Tryxt3rocks @jinx_mchue @mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft Chris chose the wrong side to defend and now has to live with the consequences #slave

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft How exactly does gay marriage encroach on religious liberty?

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Except where gay "marriage" is enacted, the state encroaches upon churches handling spiritual "stuff." @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft If being gay is only a behavior, you can prove it by fellating me.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Honestly, what resemblance does your statement have to reality? @ChrisWarcraft @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks I just spewed Mountain Dew out my nose. @ChrisWarcraft @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Wow. Equating a behavior with race, nationality and gender. #EpicFail @mitchpberg

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks Let's pick this up later. Worth discussing. But I have private-sector work to do.

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg @chriswarcraft to me, that's where civil right are infringed upon I can get married tomorrow, but have no rights

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks Well, we oughtta fix that, oughtn't we? @ChrisWarcraft

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft the trouble is, state amendments defining marriage between 1 man and 1 woman often prohibit civil unions as well.

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks That's always been my take.

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg sounds good to me. States should handle dowry rights and property rights, churches handle the spiritual stuff.

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks So if it's prejudice you're concerned about, I'm all for equal rights. Bring on the civil unions!

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @chriswarcraft @mitchpberg Libertarians are more conservative that recklessly-spending Republicans, that's for sure.

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft see, what you may not understand is that we are arguing against prejudice. #wrongsideofhistory

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg so prejudice is bad, just not when you mean blacks, I mean Irish, I mean women, oh yeah we're talking about gays

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks You really, REALLY need to read what @mitchpberg wrote about the 10th Amendment. @ChrisWarcraft

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks Right, everyone agrees prejudice is bad. That's another red herring.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks So what are you, then? Libertarian aka Democrat Lite? @ChrisWarcraft @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @chriswarcraft @mitchpberg Hell, traditional values has even meant that the Irish were treated terribly in this county #ninalaws

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Yes, the truth is often funny due to the irony it exposes. @ChrisWarcraft @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks There's also **A** baptist church in Texas that recently backed gay "marriage." Your point? @mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks And @ChrisWarcraft misrepresented trad. values. Good job getting the point. @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @chriswarcraft @mitchpberg Lol. You are too funny. I'm no Democrat by the way...

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @mitchpberg @chriswarcraft wasn't there a Baptist church that just recently refused to marry an interracial couple?

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Weak. @ChrisWarcraft @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks That would be Democrat trad. values, which means you and @ChrisWarcraft should oppose interracial marriage, right? @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @chriswarcraft @mitchpberg I take back calling you a liar; You are a politician, which is much worse.

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @chriswarcraft @mitchpberg if you say so. You deliberately misrepresent what is said to further your own cause.

ChrisWarcraft
ChrisWarcraft

@jinx_mchue I'm beginning to suspect that a lot of the words you use do not mean what you think they mean.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Parts you are cherry-picking? Parts not representative of the majority who believe in trad. values? @ChrisWarcraft @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks The only cherry-picking being done here is by you and @ChrisWarcraft. @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @chriswarcraft @mitchpberg in some parts of this country

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @chriswarcraft @mitchpberg he could have said that traditional values meant that blacks can't marry whites, which is true

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Wow. Now you're the liar. Hypocrite. @mitchpberg already put paid to the illogic of that argument. @ChrisWarcraft

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks @ChrisWarcraft's completely serious statement that trad. values = women "in the kitchen" is the lie here. @mitchpberg

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @mitchpberg @chriswarcraft what that means all the time

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@jinx_mchue @mitchpberg @chriswarcraft he said nothing about conservatives, only about a belief in "traditional values" people cherrypick

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks @ChrisWarcraft's direct statement: " traditional values say she should have been in the kitchen, and not in office" @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks And @ChrisWarcraft implied that conservatives who believe in trad. values want women in the kitchen. @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Indeed. What *IS* illogical about that? #missingtheforestforthetrees @mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks Oh, but saying conservatives who believe in traditional values want women "in the kitchen" isn't? @mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg @jinx_mchue @ChrisWarcraft His tweet was a direct statement. Anyone reading without context will assume it is true.

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@Tryxt3rocks We're talking in and about the region known as the United States here, not polygamous Saudi Arabia. @mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg point is is that @jinx_mchue said that @ChrisWarcraft said women belong in the kitchen, which is untrue. That makes him a liar.

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks So @jinx_mchue can use hyperbole, but Kluwe can? Is that it?

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg @jinx_mchue @ChrisWarcraft Using hyperbole to point out the absurd. What's illogical about that?

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks Sure, but @jinx_mchue was being hyperbolic. He wasn't being sexist - just illogical.

Tryxt3rocks
Tryxt3rocks

@mitchpberg @jinx_mchue @chriswarcraft Referring to @ChrisWarcraft as a sexist is a red herring also.

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks All true and, for purposes of this discussion, red herrings. @jinx_mchue @ChrisWarcraft

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks All true and, for purposes of this discussion, strawmen. @jinx_mchue @ChrisWarcraft

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@ChrisWarcraft This is Twitter, not a debate. @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@ChrisWarcraft Chris, have you stopped beating your wife? You don't need 140 characters to say "yes" or "no." @mitchpberg

jinx_mchue
jinx_mchue

@ChrisWarcraft No, that's what you erroneously believe trad. marriage once meant. That's called a "straw man," not logic. @mitchpberg

EricWKlemm
EricWKlemm

@mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft @jinx_mchue please tell me; in my view it seems that pretty much nothing has remained the same.

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@EricWKlemm Sure it has! But what one thing has remained constant throughout all of those definitions? @ChrisWarcraft @jinx_mchue

EricWKlemm
EricWKlemm

@mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft @jinx_mchue here is a simpler one: has "traditional marriage" been redefined multiple times throughout history?

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@ChrisWarcraft And I'll tell you one more time; honest answer is more complicated than that. @jinx_mchue

ChrisWarcraft
ChrisWarcraft

@mitchpberg @jinx_mchue I'll ask it one more time. Are you for, or are you against, redefining "marriage".

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@ChrisWarcraft Damn straight I'm avoiding the question. The honest answer is more complicated than that. @jinx_mchue

ChrisWarcraft
ChrisWarcraft

@mitchpberg @jinx_mchue Still avoiding the question. You don't need 140 characters to say 'yes' or 'no'.

EricWKlemm
EricWKlemm

@mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft @jinx_mchue to that argument in the same way talking about the history of "traditional marriage" does. 2/2

EricWKlemm
EricWKlemm

@mitchpberg @ChrisWarcraft @Tryxt3rocks @jinx_mchue if you always refer back to the good ole days of "states rights" you open yourself 1/2

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

Nice try on the 'Gotcha", btw, @ChrisWarcraft. Neither my beliefs nor my argument fit neatlyl into 140 chars. @jinx_mchue

wxrocks
wxrocks

@mitchpberg so you want tradition, but don't want govt involved? Sounds like a no vote! @ChrisWarcraft @jinx_mchue

ChrisWarcraft
ChrisWarcraft

@mitchpberg @jinx_mchue We're debating right now and you just avoided my question. Are you or are you not in favor of redefining marriage?

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@wxrocks It shoudln't. Unless you're a Packers fan. #GoBears @ChrisWarcraft @jinx_mchue

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@ChrisWarcraft As I've said many times - there's cases on both sides. Care to debate? @jinx_mchue

wxrocks
wxrocks

@mitchpberg but why should the govt dictate my family's tradition? @ChrisWarcraft @jinx_mchue

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@ChrisWarcraft By your logic,supporting enumerated powers means being pro-slavery because they were once linked. @Tryxt3rocks @jinx_mchue

ChrisWarcraft
ChrisWarcraft

@mitchpberg @jinx_mchue So *are* in favor then of redefining marriage?

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@ChrisWarcraft Of course not. Keeping (what one might argue are) beneficial traditions doesn't preclude tossing the bad. @jinx_mchue

ChrisWarcraft
ChrisWarcraft

@mitchpberg @Tryxt3rocks @jinx_mchue I wasn't being flippant. At one point, that's what "traditional marriage" meant. Shall we return to it?

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks He was being flippant. No biggie. But it's wrong. @jinx_mchue @ChrisWarcraft

mitchpberg
mitchpberg

@Tryxt3rocks His statement was pretty clear; "traditional" means barefoot, pregnant, not in office. @jinx_mchue @ChrisWarcraft

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