Byron Smith kills two Little Falls teens: Self-defense or murder? [UPDATE]

kifer smith brady.jpg
Byron Smith (center) and the teens he shot -- Haile Kifer (left) and Nicholas Brady (right).
According to 64-year-old retired State Department worker Byron Smith, two Little Falls teens broke into his rural home on the Mississippi River when he shot and killed them in self-defense. He then let the bodies sit in his house for more than a day before authorities, following up on a suspicious vehicle report, came to Smith's home and he told them about what happened.

SEE ALSO: Edina Realty won't sell house where Aaron Schaffhausen allegedly killed his three girls

Prosecutors don't totally buy Smith's version of events and have arrested him on suspicion of second-degree murder. He's expected to be formally charged today.

The Star Tribune provides more information about Smith's side of the story:
In the rear of the house, which sits on the bank of the Mississippi River, surrounded by tall pines and birches, is a shattered bedroom window, now boarded over. It was where, [Byron Smith's brother] Bruce Smith said, the teens used a lead pipe to break the glass, crawl in, walk down a hallway and go downstairs, surprising Byron Smith as he tinkered in his basement workshop over the lunch hour.

Byron Smith never called 911 but let the bodies lay in his home for just more than 24 hours while the teens' families tried to find them. Bruce Smith said his brother was distraught and didn't know what to do.

"Put yourself in his shoes after you shoot two people in your basement. How are you going to react?" he said during an interview at the house.

The brother said this was the latest of eight burglaries within the last few years, with the most recent on Oct. 27, when about $10,000 worth of guns, electronic gear and cash were stolen after thieves broke out a panel in a lower-level door. He said not all the burglaries were reported but that the one last month was reported to the Morrison County Sheriff's Office.
The two dead teens are 18-year-old Nicholas Brady and 17-year-old Haile Kifer. They were cousins. Brady's sister told the Strib Nicholas made good money working for their father's tree-trimming business and wouldn't have needed to resort to theft, but she added that Kifer had struggled with a pill addiction and speculated that might've been the reason the cousins broke into Smith's home.

In conversations with the Strib, neighbors described Smith as a quiet loner who often shot guns on his property.

Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel told the St. Cloud Times that Smith has no history with the sheriff's office. In a statement, Wetzel said: "A person has every right to defend themselves and their homes, even employing deadly force if necessary," but added investigators believe Smith's actions went beyond self-defense.

Smith's first court appearance is expected today, and a news conference is scheduled for 1 p.m., so we should know more before the day is through.

:::: UPDATE ::::
11:20 a.m. -- New details about what allegedly happened in Smith's home on Thanksgiving have emerged via the criminal complaint formally charging Smith with two counts of premeditated second-degree murder.

From the Star Tribune:
The criminal complaint says that Smith shot the two as they came down his basement stairs several minutes apart on Thanksgiving Day. The complaint adds that he shot them numerous times - each in the head after already critically wounding them.

He then waited a day before asking a neighbor to alert authorities, the document added.
:::: UPDATE ::::
12:16 p.m. -- The criminal complaint suggests that as soon as Smith realized a break-in was in progress, he decided both of the intruders needed to die.

From FOX:
According to the charges, Smith told investigators he shot Schaeffel as he walked down the stairs, then shot him again in the face as he lay on the floor looking at him.

"I want him dead," Smith told police.

Smith said he sat down in a chair when Kifer started walking down the steps. Smith shot her and she also fell down the stairs. He tried to shoot her a second time, but his rifle jammed. When the gun jammed, Kifer laughed at him, fueling his anger.

"If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," he told police.
Smith told police he then shot Kifer "more times than I needed to" in the chest, leaving her gasping for air. He ended her suffering with a "good, clean finishing shot" under her chin.

"Smith acknowledged leaving the bodies in his home overnight before calling a neighbor to ask about a lawyer and to request that authorities be notified," the Strib reports.


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79 comments
taterbaker1
taterbaker1

 It is ashamed that the mother thinks that Mr. Smith sentence was okay!  Your son was a bully and thief; he may not have deserved to be killed, but have you ever been robbed and the horrible uneasy feeling left afterwards.  What reasonable person, describe that again; after a robbery!  I understand some of Mr. Smith actions.  What beautiful teens... really... not even in death can you realize what you had.  Your son's judgement was poor and so was his dead friends.  I truly feel for you, but I also feel for a hard working Mr. Smith; to retirement in prison.  Your daughter a mother and her words were no better and of all things she is raising a child.

SoCalSandy
SoCalSandy

Just watched the Dateline program and I am still in shock that this poor gentleman is now in prison for life!! If any scumbags smash my windows and enter my home, they can expect to meet the same fate these two little thugs met. Mr. Smith wasn't lying in wait, he was hiding in his basement scared shitless! He had no idea who was in his home or what weapons they may have had on them. Ever heard the old adage "shoot first and ask questions later?" I would have acted just as he did. I don't care WHAT he did or didn't so afterward or what he muttered or what soda he prefers!! Once these turds broke into his home, they kissed their rights goodbye! I just can't believe that a jury of fair-minded citizens got this one so completely wrong.

tinakaytweekie
tinakaytweekie

omg!!! How would you, any of you feel, if this were your grandfather?? Or your uncle? Or your father? What then??? They fucking broke into his home!!! Can you seriously say he had no freaking right to do any of the things he did????????????

I mean REALLY??????????? NO!!!!!! NO FREAKING WAY!!!! I'm sorry, but even if it were my own son or daughter, and they broke into some ones home, I could not expect anything less!!! I'm sorry. But that is just it!!! It doesno0t matter who is right or wrong, if my child broke into any ones home, they should expect to be shot or killed as far as I am concerned. That's just it. very simple.

lukawren24
lukawren24

What a lot of people fail to realize, or maybe they do and just want to believe what they want to believe.....but let's say smith saw that the 2nd thief/intruder/drug addict/redneck was a younger girl and he thinks to himself, "oh, this is a teenage girl, how much of a threat is she to me" and he let her keep coming down the steps, what if she had a gun hidden in her waistband or in a sweatshirt pocket and popped smith?? We would be talking about how dumb he was for not taking action in his own home. So that's one thing, secondly, you bust in to someone's home you should be shot and killed. I can't stand these people who act like these kids were good kids. They weren't good kids. They were white trash addicts who saw what they thought was an easy mark and instead they got what was coming to them. How the judge was able to not let the jury here about past robberies by these two is truly unbelievable. How is that not relevant. And the prosecution says he set them up because he moved his truck to make it look like no one was home. So is there a law in Minnesota that says you can't move your truck?? This whole story is a great example of how the laws protect the criminals. After listening to these redneck's family and friends saying they were good kids, well, that's another example of how parents look The other way and when something bad happens, get in trouble at school etc. they take up for them and say, "you can't treat my child like that". Bottom line is this, you can cry and moan all you want that he used excessive force but the fact is if these redneck kids hadn't broken into his house they would still be Alive today, or they wouldn't have died by the hand of Byron smith. So you can give all the excuses you want but these kids got what was coming and I sure hope me smith gets this overturned.

jessholk450
jessholk450

yea they were wrong to break into his house but his is an overkilling lunatic living in the woods humpin goats you don't drop some one center mass then do a kgb style execution and then wait 12 hours to inform the authoritys he is a sick freak and its ashame he is not turned over to the army for biological or chemical weapons testing or some other form of brutal medieval style torture if I hope he is raped over and over again he is worthless pile of human excrement living in the woods like a hermit pos I hope on his way home he is devoured by a pack of bears and wolves that team up to devour his geriatric lunatic crazy ass alive and the screams of his pain and suffering echo through the woods as falcons pluck out his eyes and snakes devour his intestines

mbibro1
mbibro1

I do not see anywhere the mention of the fact that this guy is a trained government killer.  His job is/was Security Engineer for the State Department.  He traveled to foreign countries protecting our emabassies and the people who work in them.  The job qualifications for this type of job usually involve Black ops or equivelant.  This job also carries a Top Secret Clearance.  This guy, even at his age, could have stopped these kids with just his hands. I am sure the media used his worst picture and he does look scary.  I also think they would have used the teens scariest pictures and they were far from scary.  I am not saying they did not do wrong and should have not been stopped.  They were young and starting on the wrong path.  This does not mean that they would not have picked better paths in the near future and turned out great.

ryleesmommy57
ryleesmommy57

Another thing that's completely relevent in this is people making the comments about him firing more than once and shooting them after they were already shot once. Yes he shot multiple times with a pistol. Now what would be the difference if he had had a shot gun? Cuz one Buck shot with that and it would have been a whole lot worse. And they still would have ended up dead. Either way of he had shot them multiple times with a pistol or once with a rifle, the outcome would have been the same. The news makes it seam like a big ol mess. But those teens had open caskets at their wake. It wasn't some grizzly murder off of csi. There's been a whole lot worse from people killing intruders with other weapons. People are saying they were helpless with no way to fight back. Byron Smith wasn't the intruder. THEY were. Why would they need to protect themselves when they were trespassing. He had a big ol sign at the end of his quarter mile long driveway. Saying specifically " keep out". They show it in pictures. That was warrent enough yo use deadly force. Yes he was dramatic about it. Buy he had every right to respond the way he did. The right to use deadly force should only have fine print when theirs reason to question. But as of the information we have right now there is no question on his reaction to Intruders. Now if they were laying dead out in his yard, then yes. Because the state I'm in, you may use deadly force UNLESS the person is outside your home or you shoot them in the BACK. They were obviously headed downstairs lookih for something. Weather it wad Byron or some kind of substance. Either way they were walking in his direction by coming down those stairs. Their car was seen down the block from Byron Smith residents just the night before that. The house they were parked in front of had also been robbed. Found out later after the shootings. The cups even spoke to Nick in the car later found with perceived drugs to someone else the night before Thanksgiving because someone called in a suspicious car idoling infront of a house. After cops arrived Nick told them they ran out of gas and haile went to get some. There's speculation that while the cops were talking to Nick that haile was in fact in the house they were parked infront of. My question. The house they "robbed" belonged to an old highshool teacher. Who was in a different country at the time of he robbery. How did they know he had pills and thayhr was out of town?? There are a whole lot of facts hidden. And honestly I think a few people know the truth but have yet to come forward out of fear that they'll get in trouble. Only time will tell.

ryleesmommy57
ryleesmommy57

One more thing. The teens involved had just robbed a Guy down the road from byrong Smith the night before Thanksgiving. They have been linked by proof to the robbery. Second. After taking a car into investigation the cops found numerous pill bottles. The punishment for possessing prescription meds under someone else's name is a felony a pill! The teen would have spent the rest of their lives in jail if they hhadnt been killed. For all anyone knows they were who robbed Byron Smith in October too. And lord knows how many other places that have been broken into there. Again, it is a tragedy. But the crime had to stop somewhere.

ryleesmommy57
ryleesmommy57

Ok. First thing to look at is: When Nick was shot, why did haile follow?Maybe because she thought Nick shot Byron. Not the other way around. Then second: How long after Byron heard the window break did it take the teens to walk Down the stairs. I can say for myself, if I heard a window in my house break then hear foot steps down to a basement that I'm in. I would probably unload on whoever it may be. He shot before he seen their faces. So for all he knew they had weapons. Its common sense that if someone has things of value, they will protect it at all costs. Including his own life. I have children. And when I hear a single noise outside my house I'm on guard. This man was old probably was military trained, And had things of value. When your in a situation like that you act and think later. He probably wasn't thinking of the outcome as he was pulling the trigger. He was probably looking at it as Protecting himself. He probably didn't know they weren't armed. If someone broke into your house would you take the time to find out? Probably not. In time the cops will find things out through investigation. For example: Ballistic testing will tell obviously the match of bullets to gun, then they'll test the angle of weapon fire, where boy teens and Byron were standing, blood spatter projectory, If the teens had phones on them they'll check calls and texts made in the window of time between the last time they were seen and time of death. Then they'll find facts on Byron's story that he was tinkering in the basement. As to comments about him having a tarp in the basement, if anyone knows old men they'll know anything is possible to be found in an old mans basement. Including tarps. He could have been working on a car or truck part and had it to work on things on so it didn't make a mess. The fact here is, NONE of these actions would have happened if those 2 teens hadn't broke in. People expect intruders more in the night time right? So when your 60 yrs old in your basement on a holiday at noon, and you hear a window break, your probably gonna freak the f out right! I would he more scared of an intruder during the day. Lets look at another point of view here, What if Byron wasn't armed? Do you honestly think those teens were just gonna go into the basement and have a nice conversation with the Guy about his meds? Probably not. So I think either way someone was gonna end up dead. And that old man was doing what any normal person would do. Not let it be himself. Yes he shot way more times than neccesary. He may have figured he was gonna take the fall anyways so he might as well put them out of their misery and let them die together than in seperate hospital rooms hooked to machines. When it came to him shooting haile and saying it was a nice clean finish, weird but he's 60. How else would an old geaser word it? From what I've heard and read Byron shot haile and went to shoot again but his gun jammed. She laughed at him which first of all this Guy had just been surprised by a broken window by 2 intruders, then ended up shooting one of them having the left over adrenaline and fright from that hen came another one who laughed at him after his gun jams. Tell me that wouldn't fuel someone to be more angry? People are talking about how he had pistols instead of shot guns. Well if you've read up on this you would know just in October he had guns, amo, extra stolen. So maybe all he had was hand guns. And I'm sure with shooting a hand gun he figured they could still regain strength and retaliate. Because from what I've read Nick was shot 2 times. Once in the hip and after in the head. Maybe after byron shot him in the hip he was still moving and gave Byron a reason to see him as a threat. The point I'm trying to make is no matter how much people speculate, The fact still remains that 2 teens are dead after breaking into someones house. The media is making them out to be innocent children. When in actuality they were 17 and 18 almost graduated from high-school. Meaning they knew right from wrong! Either way if they were shot or still alive someone would have ended up dead. And I'm quessing it would have been Byron if he hadn't stood his ground as the homeowner of his property. And even if he had called authority's, if those teens had went to jail, I bet as soon as tthey were released they would have been back at it again. When your on drugs you don't think clearly. And if toxacology reports come back positive, that judge is gonna be whistling a different tune. As for why Byron moved nicks body before waiting for haile to come down, there's 2 things that could be why 1: because he may have thought if haile seen him laying on the ground that she may run to the cops and claim other event happened than what did. Or because if she seen him on the ground it may cause her to react and possibly harm him. The fact still remains that nothing can be done about whatever did happen. I feel the utmost pain for he family's of the 2 teens who will never get to live a full life. Because their parents and siblings friends and family have to suffer. This wasn't a suicide or accidental death, it was the outcome of a potential robbery. So those people remaining are left knowing their friend, son, daughter, sister, and brother died because of a burglery. For what? Pills. That has to be not only heart breaking, but humilliating. I lived in that town. Was friends with the cousins of the 2 teens. No. Noone deserves to die that way. But sometimes its them or you. All I can think about is their family's. Every Thanksgiving will be a painful reminder. Those teens should have been with their family's eating lunch for the holiday. They had a car full of pills. Why he need to go back? Believe me I'm full of questions too. Because the teens that this happened to, I didn't know ok a personal level. But I've seen them in the fflesh. I've passed them in the halls. And I wonder why someone woould risk their lives to come point blank range with the gun of an senile old man. Any person would know the risk of breaking into a home. For all we know they were breaking in to steal one of his guns to kill someone else. No one will know the true facts till Byron Smith stands trial. My prayers go out to the family's involved. Lord knows they've been through enough. Even if Byron Smith is released, God will make his final judgement. I apologize in advance if I've offended anyone. I am very strongly opinionated.

trojanpony
trojanpony

@MicheleBachman    Michele, (Pseduo) Bachmann...  Your  reputation ( months of posts)  proceeds you. 

 This is not FUNNY!   and  I highly suggest you knock it off!!

trojanpony
trojanpony

This is such a sad story. And We do not know ALL the facts...

BUT If these people were COMPLETE strangers he had every to do what he did.  I sure would do the same thing thing also..  In fact I would have spent 2 days in a trance thinking  OMG What was that, What was that..  So he waited 24 hours..  he called..  It took the school  5-7 days to bring in grief counselors..    The man should not be in jail,  He did not design this tragic event.

juliettenoelle22
juliettenoelle22

I am a 17 year old girl and I heard about this in school today. at first I thought that the man seemed just repulsive and psycho. I cringed at the thought of it all. but then as I was taking the city bus home I was thiking about it.. I am looked at as a joke in my neck of the woods for my reputation.. and people do laugh at me. they laugh at my life and just see me as a joke. they don't see me as a threat ( because I'm not) but I always wanted them tobe afraid of me so they would stop. if I were standing with a riffle and one of the 17 yr old girls who laughs at my life were in front me laughing, I would probably shoot. the thought frightened me as it came in my head but it got me thinking more.. this man is old. not old old but looking at him your can clearly tell he doesn't have the bounce to his step like he used to. that frustrates and makes many people upset. this was only one of the handful of times someone has broken into his house, stolen stuff and then proceeded to get away with it. he was feeling like a joke. like there were people taking advantage of him. and no one likes feeling stupid. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be charged with murder; I think he should rot in jail. but I'm just trying to put my point of view out there. if he was able to shoot people on thanksgiving it must have ment he was alone. do you know what its like tobe alone on holidats? you feel worthless and alone. I see why this manwasntit the right statee of mind even before the kids entered his house. depression sucks. this man didn't have any history with breaking the law before this incident. he can't pose anymoee of a threat then that girl who just wanted pills. trust me I've had addiction, and people will kill to get the daily dose of there choice of drug. even if she is a teen. smith heard them in his house upstairs and hadno way of knowing that the kid was a KID. as he came downstairs he took his shots. the girl followed concerned for her cousin. he shot her too. there's nothing worse then being wronged and knowing that the others got away with it. in any situation. he was wronged and wanted his die hard revenge. litterally. just liie this family wants. this family wants the satiafaction of gettinf this guy locked up. but did you know that its about 8000 to 12000 dollars per year for each prisoner tobe locked up? guess where that money comes from? YOUR TAXES!! I'm young and even I know that. I believe that the people who should go rot in jail should be the people who pose a threat to society. this guy was minding his own bussiness. that doesn't mean that the family shouldnt get justice. I just think that this guy was in reason with what his depression and anger was telling him to do. why did he wait 24 hours everyone wants to know? no one knows for sure but I kow that if killed

2 kids ajd knew that the reasoning didn't look so good on my part, I would talk to friends and get the last out of my little time left in society. he regrets it and knows that he did something wrong.. the people who are more likely toshoot again are thepeople who think there was nothing wrong with there action. this guy was tired of feeling like a joke. I believe that this case was murder, but more than anything I believe it was ego defense. not self defense. and I hate to say it but, I see where the guy was coming from. never laugh at an angry person with a gun. think about it.

muttsez
muttsez

how much threat can a 17 yr old girl be?  SEE BRENDA SPENCER !

AnnM
AnnM

Multiple shots csn be an automatic reaction if you were trained in the military.  Two shots to the abdomen, one to the head.

Federal officers shoot only to kill, often with small, concealed arms.  Two head/face shots.

However, the shooting must be immediate to be "automatic".    The fact that he waited and shot them again later creates a legal problem for him.

Frankly, two druggie scumbags are now off the street, making life safer for law-abiding citizens.  The people in Little Falls should thank him.

lextalionis
lextalionis

It seems no one has really stopped and thought logically about what has happened.  Because for 24 hrs these bodies lay bleeding out while the shooter has some left over turkey and a night cap.  What transpired in that 24 hr window?  We cant actually answer this but we can speculate on what someone might need with that 24 hrs.  (Clean-up, Staging, etc.)  Although even without the 24 hr period, there is still plenty to be looked at.  All the odd things like a "Noon" robbery on Thanksgiving, or his report that he shot one and the other came walking down after.  Of course we will never know for sure but I will throw my theory out there.  64 yr old man, a couple of teens, inside a basement, in a rural area.  Why was his home always getting broken into?  What did this guy have in his home that was so valuable?  What was more important than 2 dead teens bleeding out in his basement?  A longer sentence maybe?

Dan Mason
Dan Mason

The initial shots are legit but following them up with a kill shot after they're already critically wounded is by definition, second degree murder.

Robin Hanson
Robin Hanson

what doesn't make sense to me is why when hearing gun shots she didn't leave the house. instead she goes to where the shots were fired.

Curtis Meyer
Curtis Meyer

If you defend what this guy did in the name of gun ownership and home defence, then you do your cause a disservice. Assassinating teen burglars gang-style is not why we allow people to defend their homes with guns.

Curtis Meyer
Curtis Meyer

If you defend what this guy did in the name of gun ownership and home defence, then you do your cause a disservice. Assassinating teen burglars gang-style is not why we allow people to defend their homes with guns.

Curtis Meyer
Curtis Meyer

Shot one in the face after he was down. Waited. Shot the other in the chest multiple times while she was down. This is murder.

Curtis Meyer
Curtis Meyer

Shot one in the face after he was down. Waited. Shot the other in the chest multiple times while she was down. This is murder.

todd.ellenson
todd.ellenson

That really sucks that this happened.  I feel badly for both the families.  I don't know all the facts, ,but what were they doing in the house that they shouldn't have been in?  I don't agree with shooting them, but I'd like to know what happened before we judge.

 

Eric Shawn Smith
Eric Shawn Smith

Matty Stewert you sound like a real tough guy. I wouldn't break in your basement. I would just knock on your front door and just beat your ass.

Erica Anderson
Erica Anderson

The least the guy could have done was call for medical attention for the 2 teens right after he shot them. The fact that he waited a day is not right. To deny them medical attention should him some sort of punishment even if it isn't much.

corellcleef
corellcleef

retniz1 speak for yourself when you say we ALL do stupid things EVERYDAY. I guarantee this old sick fuck did more than just shoot 2 unarmed teens. Already looks suspicious as all hell not alerting authorities immediately. Not to mention shooting them both in the head AFTER they were critically. 

Meg Nathan
Meg Nathan

If you had ever taken a firearms class you would know that the first thing they tell you is, you NEVER shoot to maim - you aim center-of-mass and shoot to kill - always.

Jamie Larson
Jamie Larson

Wondering if the guy had drugs or something in his house. I could see shooting to maim, not kill if someone was breaking in. BUT you also call the cops right away. If not, you definitely look suspicious. No one waits a day, especially when the kids could have been alive and gotten medical help.

AluAkbar
AluAkbar

@SoCalSandy  

No, he was lying in wait. He had set up what was described as a deer stand. Unscrewed lights in the basement. Moved his truck. Set up surveillance equipment and watched the kid scope out the house for 11 minutes. Any reasonable person with "self-defense" on their mind would have called police, or opened a door with gun in hand and scared them off. Not lay in wait. Lets not forget that he waited a day with 2 dead bodies in his house to report it. He himself admitted to police he fired more shots than what was necessary.

Did the kids commit a crime? Absolutely? Does Minnesota have a castle doctorine law? Absolutely. However according to the law, the force has to be reasonable and justified. The jury determined that the "execution shots" when the victims were lying wounded on the ground (no longer a threat) were un-necessary. No different than a cop using excessive force. He did have the right to shoot first, but not execute them when they were wounded, unarmed, and no longer a threat.

To anyone saying they would have acted the same way, I'm sure there's a cell next to this guy that you could share with him.

AluAkbar
AluAkbar

@lukawren24  


Nobody is disputing the first shot(s) to each of the victims. Nobody. If you've listened to the released audio, it was clear he shot them when both were wounded on the ground, and no longer a threat. He chose to put the gun to the girls chin and execute her after she was wounded.

Nobody is saying they were angels, but he executed both of them after initially wounding them. After he shot the girl with the rifle, it jammed, so he switched to his handgun when she was on the ground. You're allowed to defend your home with (deadly) force, but not execute them. It's no different than a cop shooting someone if they are no longer a threat. If someone has surrendered, or is wounded, you can just decide to finish them off.

lukawren24
lukawren24

Man, your comment is garbage. Tell your redneck friends to quit committing felonies and then maybe they won't be sucking on lead.

kimba4
kimba4

Ha! Or kept on their path and escalated and brought a gun to the next one and killed someone, could've been ur grandpas house next.

AluAkbar
AluAkbar

@ryleesmommy57  


Just because a larger calibre weapon may have killed them in one shot, doesn't mean you can use a smaller calibre weapon, remove the threat, and then decide to execute them when they are on the ground wounded (possibly mortally already), and then decide to fire 3-4 more times at each to finish them off. He shot each of them once or twice when they entered, and both fell down the stairs. They were wounded at the bottom of the stairs, and no longer a threat. With the girl, he went to shoot her again, and his rifle jammed. He switched to the handgun and shot her several more times when she was wounded on the ground, obviously no longer a  threat. That's called an execution. 


If you can't see how that is murder, then nothing I say will matter.

You state "The right to use deadly force should only have fine print when theirs reason to question. "

There was question. The question was he had removed the threat. He was no longer in danger. Two kids were wounded on his basement floor, and he decided to finish them off instead of calling police. They were no longer a threat, and he decided what they did should be paid with for their life, instead of jail time. It's that simple.

MicheleBachmann
MicheleBachmann topcommenter

@trojanpony According to your link Charles Manson never actually murdered anyone.  He just told people to do it.  Also, you are a complete idiot to think Charles Manson has anything to do with this.  This guy murdered helpless teens.  You don't have a right to kill people if they are no threat to you.  He shot an unarmed 17 year old girl who was already wounded for laughing at him. He is a murderer and should be locked up. 

MicheleBachmann
MicheleBachmann topcommenter

@trojanpony Then you are an idiot who is not responsible enough to have a gun.  Everyone knows to call the cops in this situation.  You are a fool and making excuses for a murderer.

MicheleBachmann
MicheleBachmann topcommenter

@muttsez Read the whole story stupid.  He shot her for laughing at him.  This was murder.  No 17 year old deserves to be shot dead by some creepy pyscho because she laughed at him.  Besides this asshole didn't call the cops for 24 hours.  He could have staged the whole thing.  Who knows if those kids were even in the house?  At minimum he killed people that posed no threat to him once they had been shot once.  These are just kids making mistakes, now they are dead.  This psycho should have known better.  Having a gun means you have to be responsible.  He shot two kids for a minor crime and then didn't call the cops for 24 hours. I hope he goes to prison the rest of his life.

kimba4
kimba4

Most likely he was in shock. It doesn't matter, he shot immediately after they entered where he was. They were coming towards him and all that matters is it was in HIS HOME.

AluAkbar
AluAkbar

wow, someone with some common sense here? I have to wonder, with all the gun toting lunatics that don't see a problem with the "execution shots", how the heck did they get a jury of 12 reasonable people who saw that he went overboard.

I'm guessing a lot of the people here haven't listened to the audio though. 

kimba4
kimba4

So if they were older and black it would be okay?

retniz1
retniz1

 @corellcleef

 And to (pseudo)MicheleBachmann as well:

Suspicious not to alert authorities right away? If you're under 50, Google "Chappaquiddick" for the end-all, be-all example. And he spent how many years living on your tax dollars after that?

AluAkbar
AluAkbar

I don't remember the lesson on "how to execute wounded home invaders" in my firearms class.

The guy didn't kill with his initial shots. He maimed, probably because he was using a dinky little .22. So he decided to shoot them in the head point blank after that when they were no longer a threat. That's unnecessary according to Minnesota castle doctrine law. Very similar to an unnecessary or justified force case against a police officer.

People siding with this lunatic give responsible gun owners a bad name. With guys like this, I begin to understand the anti-gun movement crowd.

taterbaker1
taterbaker1

@AluAkbar what ever Mr. Smith did may have had a horrible outcome, but you have not gotten robbed.  When you do remember this case!  Then you also may be in the next cell!

kimba4
kimba4

First of all, he is not a cop or trained in excessive force. Was he suppose to pat them down and check for weapons after the first shot? Was he suppose to ask for ID to check their age? Or remove their hoodies to get a good look and decide if they look scary? Remember, they stole his guns last time, he should assume they are armed with his guns! He is old and defenseless but most importantly...in his own home. Just because they are on the ground doesn't mean the threat is gone, they r still in his house. What if they got up and beat him, maybe more were behind them with guns. Old people are vulnerable and paranoid. He watches the news and only ever sees the old person who gets killed in their own home. This happened so many times that he probably had many nightmares of it going very differently...with him not able to get back up. Sad anytime someone dies but they don't offer classes for civilians on how to protect urself in ur own home. All criminals know that the homeowner has the right to kill during a home invasion. If he'd have used a bigger gun, he would have only had to shoot once then this wouldn't even be an issue or a case.

kimba4
kimba4

He didn't know she was 17 and he had no idea she was unarmed. All he knew was this was a home invasion and they usually end very bad, ESP for the elderly. Not to mention, the news is full of stories of "teens" murdering people, shooting up high schools, killing for fun, killing on drug binges. Today's teens are extremely dangerous, often deadly, often on drugs. They ARE NOT helpless teens!!! He had no idea what they are capable of. As long as they were in his house, they were a threat, even on the ground. Either one could have easily reached in their waistband and grabbed a gun and shot. A home invasion is extremely scary and violating. He shouldn't be expected to take the time to think things thru, process them, and then decide on his action. He should assume they are armed and dangerous in the middle of a home invasion. Esp since his guns were stolen the last time. He should not be judged for his impulsive actions I his own home in the middle of a home invasion. These "precious teens" are the ones who should have thought things through. They had time to think about their actions and their consequences...not the victim of their crime. They knew he had weapons as they had broke in before. Did they think he was an avid hunter or that maybe he kept guns for protection. They were killed during the commission of a felony, they created their fate, sadly, but it was their choice.

kimba4
kimba4

How do u know it was gonna be a minor crime!!! A home invasion is a serious and violent crime! In the same category as rape! One should NEVER be violated in their home. This wasn't at Walmart, it was in his home! U need to do some research and realize how many teens murder, many for fun. Was he suppose to ask for their ID, ask if they had any weapons, and ask what their intentions were, ask how many robbers there are, ask if they are on drugs, mentally stable, or rational? Ask if they were going to tie him up, beat him, keep him hostage? HELL NO!!! He has the right to not only protect himself but his dwelling as well. U are so naive! Watch the news and see how many teens kill...girls and boys. Today's teens are extremely screwed up and can be extremely violent without a care for consequence. This is no petty crime by innocent teens.

MicheleBachmann
MicheleBachmann topcommenter

 @retniz1 Congrats on being the most pathetic stupid pointless troll alive.  You were wrong and jumped the gun defending this psycho.  Now like a stupid pathetic child you are doing anything you can to avoid admitting you were wrong and learning from your mistakes.  Go away stupid, no one needs to hear from you if you think Ted Kennedy has something to do with this you dumb fool.

Kmontie
Kmontie

Wow, ur real mature. Perhaps u should re-read ur posts. Kids? Psycho? It sounds like you are defending the criminals. Home invasion burglary felons. So let me get this right, because he shot more than once, with a little time in between, he is the criminal? I don't believe I would ever call someone a murderer in their own home against strangers that entered through a window. His thoughts, actions, motives should not be what anyone is judging or criticizing. He acted impulsive and irrational because criminals had broken in his home and were coming down where he was. No idea how many, are the rapist, murderers, drug addicts that are crazy, deranged psychos? I don't know??? I'm in my own home, I'm gonna do whatever I can to not be the victim in my house! Shoot, shoot, and shoot...if not, get a bat or a knife and don't stop til they are dead, that's when the threat is gone and not until then. It's not his responsibility to rationalize everything when he is caught by surprise by unknown intruders. He's entitled to over react, act crazy, make irrational decisions. It's his home, his safe place, his life in the balance here. He wasn't trained on how to react to this situation, he vaguely knows the law like th rest of us: you can kill an intruder, armed or not. Doesn't matter. Maybe he has a mental disorder, maybe he has early dementia...it doesn't matter, he's at home minding his own business. He should be safe and he's not. Their mere presence is a threat, esp to an elderly retired person. He didn't go looking for trouble. Most all teen deaths are a result of their own stupid actions cuz they think consequence doesn't apply to them. They should have robbed Walmart if they didn't want to run into an unstable homeowner!

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