MN for Marriage suddenly worried people might think they're bigots

mnformarriagerect.JPG
Instead of fretting about being called bigots, why not just own it?
Well, this is rich. With marriage equality a Senate vote and a Mark Dayton signature away from becoming the law of the land in Minnesota, Minnesota for Marriage -- the state's leading unintentional comedy troupe anti-gay marriage organization -- is suddenly worried about people thinking they're bigots.

In a statement released after yesterday's House vote, Minnesota for Marriage urges the Senate to vote no.

FROM NOVEMBER: MN for Marriage's concession: "God has defined marriage as between one man and one woman"

Senators "must ask themselves whether or not they will choose to classify half of Minnesotans who believe that marriage is between one man and one woman as bigots under the law," the statement says.

As is the case in recent mailings Minnesota for Marriage sent to outstate areas, yesterday's news release emphasizes the fact that Minnesota is nearly evenly divided when it comes to gay marriage, with support concentrated in the Twin Cities metro region.

"If we redefine marriage with the passage of this bill, over one million Minnesotans will be forced to either affirm what they believe to be false or subject themselves to prosecution and insult as 'bigots' and 'criminals['] under our law," the statement says.

Criminals? While a compelling argument could be made that bigotry should be a crime, there's nothing in the Dibble/Clark marriage equality bill that criminalizes hating on homosexuals (as long as no other laws are broken in the process). So in the eleventh hour, as they've been wont to do since the marriage amendment was a hot topic of conversation, Minnesota for Marriage is again playing fast and loose with the facts.

-- Follow Aaron Rupar on Twitter at @atrupar. Got a tip? Drop him a line at arupar@citypages.com.

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59 comments
brownlifton
brownlifton

Hey, dont worry people.....you still get to be bigots, haters, assholes, homophobes and discriminate against and disrespect people you dont like ....but you just cant tell gay people that they cant get married anymore just because your religion teaches against it. But again, you still have every right to be a absolute disgusting creep, an absolute toothache of a person that no one likes exept other like-minded morons who use the bible as an excuse to be a bigot, while gay couples raise great, well adjusted kids, take care of their aging parents,  excell in their careers, support their communities, enjoy their lives and remember the days when most people actually cared what you had to say. If all this seems difficult for you, dont worry, because in about 20 years, most people who think like you will be......well.....DEAD!

Chris Goyette
Chris Goyette

I think someone blocked me in this conversation....lol.

scott55116
scott55116

I am in support of civil unions. I do not support the media and frenzy they have created. Making being gay as cool and hip, is a dangerous game! We are playing with our children's future and their ability to make good choices regarding there sexuality. At 18 I experimented with another man. I probably would not have done it, if not for the influence of a gay friend of mine. It was not his fault but he did help push me into a choice that I regret very much. How many young people are in the same boat right now, and who is going to pick up the pieces. The choice of your sexuality is a lifelong decision and there are no returns. The media needs to start talking about the seriousness of this choice.

Trevor Ludwig
Trevor Ludwig

They could fix that by not having moronic beliefs...

Trevor Ludwig
Trevor Ludwig

Peg, do you wear polyblended clothing? GOD said that was an abomination? Are you fighting the good fight to keep other materials out of your clothes? Have you protested shrimp lately? I believe that was referred to as an abomination more frequently than being gay. I also assume you are pro-slavery, just so long as it's from a neighboring country, right?

Chris Goyette
Chris Goyette

My point is that when religion enters the conversation, the conversation ends.

Peg Mielke Drentlaw
Peg Mielke Drentlaw

And for the record... I do hate the sin and not the sinner. I can look waaaaaaaaaaay past that. Believe me. I just can't condone it. I won't say Yea for you guys... nope.

Peg Mielke Drentlaw
Peg Mielke Drentlaw

Wade Kornich ........ Answer this for me. Is being a homosexual a sin or not? It IS in Gods book .... the same as swearing is a sin the same that murder, adultry, cheating .... the list is endless on the sins WE have. I just cannot condone a law being handed down. It goes against what God / Jesus wants from us. Understand this. I HAVE to speak out against it. It IS a sin.

Branden Strot
Branden Strot

if this "god" hates gays so much, then why did it make gay people?

Wade Kornich
Wade Kornich

Peg you obviously do not understand your book. You are picking and choosing what you want to take to benefit you while condemning others. To what is actually said in the bible is much different to what you are saying. Jesus did not mention once and the loose translation in the bible is very rare. The word abomination was also mistranslated. So what you are doing is actually more of a sin than homosexuality. You want me to give you a very long list. The only thing you should be thinking is hate the sin not the sinner and only God can judge me. You are not God and far from being near his side.

Branden Strot
Branden Strot

whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down there turbo. women voters?! welcome to planet mars. i'll be over in my spaceship.

Ryan Wachtel
Ryan Wachtel

For he so loved us that he gave his only son.... so that we may eat at Red Lobster.

eanderson1974
eanderson1974

A little too late for MN For Marriage to worry about what people might think of them. I have a higher opinion for a pile of dog poo than for the group.

brennanlee.o
brennanlee.o

Ohhh newsflash MN for Marriage................you are bigots, no need to "worry" about looking like it, you already do. 

Lindsay Neely
Lindsay Neely

Good for you. The issue is that not everyone believes in your God or a god at all so you can't base laws on his or her supposed words. Your religion doesn't condone it so don't be gay or get married to a gay person. Problem solved.

Peg Mielke Drentlaw
Peg Mielke Drentlaw

If we were talking about Twinkies.... God would not have an opinion on the matter and I would tell you that Twinkies are not good for you because of all that sugar and who knows what else they put in them.... But we are talking about something God feels very strongly about. I happen to want to be on His side.

Chris Goyette
Chris Goyette

No, afraid of religious fanatics such as yourself that are so narrow-minded and stuck in dogma that they are unwilling or unable to think for themselves.

Chris Goyette
Chris Goyette

Any time you throw religion into a conversation, the conversation is no longer a conversation. Keep religion out of this.

Peg Mielke Drentlaw
Peg Mielke Drentlaw

I am telling you.... Its GODs words not mine. God said it is a sin... same as stealing same as murder - swearing etc. Jesus died and told us all our food is clean. Hey.... don't bother arguing with me, I am just a messenger.... take your points to the Lord and see if he condones the gay lifestyle. Be HONEST with yourselves. You KNOW He does not!

Chris Goyette
Chris Goyette

What?!? I wasn't talking about Christianity, fiber, or shellfish...where did that come from?

Cooger N Dark
Cooger N Dark

Then I suppose you don't mix fibers or eat shellfish, since the Bible also listed those things as forbidden? No? Okay so you're just being full of it, then.

Ian Stenlund
Ian Stenlund

"If we lose the argument, we'll be proven wrong."

Peg Mielke Drentlaw
Peg Mielke Drentlaw

Chris as a Christian I don't see it as my 'opinion' if its anyones opinion than talk to God about that, he said it was an abomination in the Bible, If you don't believe in Him then I pray you find Him soon.

guest
guest

They ARE bigots. We've been saying that for years. They only NOW started to hear the words?

Marisa Quesnell
Marisa Quesnell

"Suddenly?" - well they don't have to worry about that, they already are and have been all along!

Chris Goyette
Chris Goyette

"bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance", sounds about right.

David Lloyd
David Lloyd

It's funny. When I pointed this out while debating the topic this week I was accuse of persecuting christians

green23
green23

@Peg Mielke Drentlaw  I guess that we'll all have to struggle with the immense influence your opinion has over our lives.

kill_the_wabbit
kill_the_wabbit

@Peg Mielke Drentlaw Surely you do not "condone" people who do not embrace Jesus as their own personal savior. Yet I see no evidence that you are working to repeal the First Amendment and institute a state religion and insist the government jail, fine or perhaps even execute non-believers. In fact, I bet you'd find the idea offensive that I'd ever insinuate you would ever believe/do such a thing! Gasp! Because you know deep down that respect is not the same thing as approval. In a republic such as ours and in a pluralist society such as ours, we are not obliged to love our neighbor—but we are required to respect that neighbor, to trust that neighbor is living his or her life in accordance with his or her own good conscience as best he or she can. That is really it. I don't really care if you feel your heart is filled with love; that may be the intent of your actions, but that is not the outcome. The outcome is to belittle and lessen people who, by law, are your equals. Your insistance that you hate the sin but not the sinner. Fine. But when the "sin" is not illegal, you have no basis at all to curtail the sinner's right to live how he or she sees fit. Peg, you do have the right to hate people! Or to yell at them and tell them they're going to burn in hell for their wicked ways! You have the right to disassociate yourself from whomever you wish and work until your fingers bleed to save their souls. Embrace that freedom. But you will never have the right to deny any other American equal protection of the laws that we share. And if you can't understand that, well... I'm perfectly capable of pitying the ignorance and the ignoramus.

swmnguy
swmnguy topcommenter

@Peg Mielke Drentlaw Do and believe as you like.  The US, however, was founded in reaction to a country that had a State Religion (the Church of England),  Therefore, even though a lot of the Founders were Anglicans, they put it in the First Amendment that we wouldn't Establish a religion in our government.  As a result, our country has been a cherished haven for people of all religions; precisely because we do not allow religious reasoning in our laws.  It does make things tricky, coming up with laws and procedures that are fair to people of all religions, and of no religion at all.  But that's what we do around here.

You're perfectly free to believe whatever you want to.  The law has to apply evenly and fairly to everybody, regardless of religious belief or lack thereof.

The other side of that coin is, if your religion allows you to justify thinking the less of others and saying so, everyone else is free to disagree with you and think the less of you for your behavior; not your religious beliefs.  A lot of people love the rights that freedom gives them, but aren't so keen on the responsibilities that come with that freedom.

Drewey
Drewey topcommenter

@Peg Mielke Drentlaw You're irrelevant

LoveGardening
LoveGardening

@Peg Mielke Drentlaw Being and action are two different things.  If one is referring to Roman Catholicism, their belief is that the homosexual act is in itself sinful, but while merely having a homosexual orientation is not, I repeat is not a sin.  Thank goodness we have sane politicians who will not impose other's faith based views through laws onto the rest of society who is not of that faith or creed.  BTW: I am a straight Catholic who volunteered countless hours to defeat the hurtful anti-gay marriage amendment last Nov 2012.  I strongly believe in not casting the first stone and I certainly try to live by the golden rule. Part of the tenet of my faith I am commanded to do is to listen to my conscience AND I HAVE in this matter of marriage equality and the Freedom to Marry in MN.  If the government ran as you seem that you would like it to, you may not even have the freedom of religion of which you enjoy for you to be expressing your opposing views based upon your faith towards those who believe differently than you.  It's a thinker.....peace

swmnguy
swmnguy topcommenter

@Peg Mielke DrentlawHere's what Jesus really said about this sort of thing:

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."  Matthew 7: 1-5

If you believe in an omnipotent God, I'm sure He's perfectly capable of dealing with gay people who love each other and want to get married.  Haven't you got something worthwhile to be doing?  I certainly hope so.  If not, that would be very sad.  Especially in Spring, when so much gardening needs doing.

kill_the_wabbit
kill_the_wabbit

@Peg Mielke Drentlaw I don't understand why you're not campaigning to repeal the First Amendment to ban swear words then—or, for that matter, to have other gods before Jehovah. If you can't condone laws that violate what God/Jesus wants from us and you HAVE to speak out against sin, then you should stop picking and choosing with such care which sins are the ones where you decide to draw the line. You are so quick to forgive yourself, Peg, by claiming that you hate the sin but not the sinner, even though you want the sinner to be miserable. It is a very strange piety indeed that offers someone else's misery to show your love. If I were you, I'd pay a little less attention about my sinfulness and start campaigning to enact laws that bar your own access to our government because of your own sin first.

Thinkingagain.
Thinkingagain.

@Peg Mielke Drentlaw I don't believe in your god and as an American, I have that freedom.  I support all Americans.  So what, you don't believe in it.  Get over yourself.

Thinkingagain.
Thinkingagain.

@Peg Mielke Drentlaw This is a funny troll character!

MNjoe
MNjoe

@Peg Mielke Drentlaw If God felt sooo strongly about this issue? Why isn't it in the 10 Commandments? Most of you so-called Christians can't even follow those especially the stealing and adultery parts. Hypocrites!

Onan
Onan

@Peg Mielke Drentlaw Seeing as the US is not a theocracy, please feel free to keep your religion out of public policy matters and I will keep MY religion out of public policy matters.

MNjoe
MNjoe

@Peg Mielke Drentlaw You are so full of shit Peg - c'mon, give us "god's quote'" or how about something from Jesus? Your ancestors used the bible to rant against mixed-race marriages, for slavery and against the teachings of Galileo (among other things). So far, wrong, wrong and wrong again. Be honest with yourself - you know you're a bigot. Just admit it.

brennanlee.o
brennanlee.o

@Peg Mielke Drentlaw  How do you know what "GOD" said?  Because of some fiction book that has been re-written hundreds of times suggest it?   The point here is simple, learn to think for yourself or should we find ways to come up with books that make it so you can't be happy somehow to?  Wouldn't be hard to create a Religion and find a way for Red heads not be allowed to get married....idiotic isn't it?  Think about it. 

t_bone_301
t_bone_301

@Peg Mielke Drentlaw Seriously shut up nobody cares what some ignorant uneducated loser like you thinks about anything. 

green23
green23

@swmnguy  We keep seeing this weird idea on the Right that everyone has to agree on everything, and that if you disagree, then you are creating some kind of problem. 

I think that it comes from the 1950's-era mindset of enforced conformity. In that subculture, being different in any kind of detectable way was grounds for social punishment. 'Different' people got beaten up, fired from their jobs, and were generally shown contempt at every opportunity.


The Right is heavily-invested in this 1950's-style social construct. They know full well how they would treat anyone different or in the social minority. So, now they fear their status as a social minority. That's why we see this obsession with the idea that conservatives are being "bullied", or "silenced". That's also why we are seeing these 'brave' declarations of dissent from conservatives that the rest of the world finds bewildering. Apparently, we are supposed to be shocked or shamed that someone disagrees with us, and change our opinions on that basis. 

Expect more of this weird kind of bravery from conservatives.

MNjoe
MNjoe

Also Peg, try to follow the parts of the bible about taking care of the poor and not stealing. You Republican A-holes always seem to skim over those parts but go berzerk over the gays.

swmnguy
swmnguy topcommenter

@green23   Oh, I think it's much older, more basically human, and much more dangerous than that.

Humans are social animals by nature.  We like to be independent, but we deeply need to be a part of the group.  Conformity is actually a deeply rooted survival skill, though it is through non-conformity that the species actually progresses.  That paradox is key to understanding humans in a social context.

The Right is, by its own definitions and behavior, opposed to change of social orders.  They even call themselves "Conservative," which can be a little confusing when they adhere to clearly wasteful practices.  For example, what are they "Conserving" by opposing energy efficiency, sustainable agriculture, or any of a number of things?  They're conserving the status quo, only.

This is why John Stuart Mill once said, "Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."  This is because those who most wish to maintain the social order at any given time are either the few at the top who benefit, or the stupid people who fear (perhaps correctly) that they cannot adapt to change in the existing social order.

It is that fear that is the key to understanding the Right in America.  This is why they are so shrill and adamant in sticking to clearly preposterous arguments, and why they are so vehement in attacking any idea or individual who challenges illogical or dysfunctional aspects of the status quo.  Fear.  Fear is not amenable to reason, or it would have already been extinguished.  Fear feeds upon itself, and it protects itself from being defeated by reason, by undermining reason itself.  This is why you can't pick up a wounded wild animal; their fear will not let them recognize that you mean to help and they'll just bite you.

Fear abhors reason, but it isn't without cunning.  Indeed fear inspires much cleverness, if not wise thought.  It provides very effective short-term, lower-order survival thinking.  This is why criminals from the underclass are so clever in their crimes, yet so stupid in making long-term choices.  They are motivated almost exclusively by fear.  So they can get the upper hand on you for the next 5 minutes, take all your stuff and even kill you, but you would have gotten much farther ahead in your life than they ever would, because their fear prevents them from anticipating and avoiding consequences down the road through effective choice.

Just so, the cunning of the fear-motivated Right lashes out viciously at anyone they perceive as "different."  They can't abide the idea that anyone anywhere might be getting anything they don't deserve, so they would rather imprison the criminal at enormous long-term cost than spend a fraction of the money to teach the potential criminal how to persevere in society for better outcomes, before they become criminals in the first place.

Fear also engenders another low-order emotion; self-pity.  Who has lost more in the past 5 decades than under-educated white lower-middle-class males?  Rather than understand why this has happened and adapt, they in their fear, self-doubt and self-pity lash out against anyone they perceive as a threat, or as having superseded them in the social order.

This is why you see such simplistic, yet very distracting and effective schoolyard argumentation from the Right.  Most right-wing arguments distill down to, "I know you are but what am I," or "I'm rubber and you're glue; whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you."  Once you realize this, you can't even listen to Limbaugh or Hannity ever again, because that is all their arguments reduce to.

The key to dealing with the Right is discrediting the illusion that they are in the numerical majority, or even in the ideological mainstream.  They are neither in America today. It is only because most people have been cowed into thinking somehow the Right is a majority position that people even tolerate their outlandish behavior.   But it's when they feel how isolated they truly are is when they become the most dangerous, because the Fear inside them becomes nearly unmanageable.  They'll use all the lower-order tactics of projection, bullying, and coercion to conformity, and they'll do it with increasing desperation.  They don't have any other means at their disposal.

Hemingway's "For Whom The Bell Tolls," and Sinclair Lewis' "It Can't Happen Here" contain very perceptive portraits of the right-wing mentality set loose.

So yeah, "expect more of this weird kind of bravery" from them.  And have a care; when they're really scared is when they get really dangerous.

 Oh, and don't get me started on "Liberals."  "Michele Bachmann" got me wound up on that topic once and I went on and on to the point that this little treatise looks like haiku by comparison.

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