St. Paul police roughly arrest black man sitting in skyway [VIDEO]

stPaularrest.jpg
Lollie says he's fine with us using his real name and unedited mugshot (visible above).
:::: UPDATE :::: St. Paul police defend Chris Lollie arrest; lawyers question aggressive use of force

A cell phone video posted to YouTube this week shows a St. Paul police officer roughing up a black man who was apparently doing nothing more than sitting in the skyway, waiting to pick up his kids.

At 9:43 a.m. on January 31, police were summoned to the skyway in downtown St. Paul's First National Bank Building on a report of a man loitering. The video footage shows an officer asking the then-27-year-old man to provide his name.

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"Why do I have to let you know who I am? Who I am isn't the problem," the man calmly replies.

"Because that's what police do when they get called," the officer responds.

The man explains he was sitting in the skyway waiting to pick up his kids at 10 o'clock from the New Horizon Academy school. He says he had gotten off work at Cossetta at 9 a.m.

He tells the officer, "First off, that's a public area. And if there's no sign that [says], 'This is a private area, you can't sit here,' no one can tell me I can't sit here."

"The problem is..." the officer says, before she's cut off.

"The problem is I'm black. That's the problem," the man interjects. "It really is because I didn't do anything wrong."

Though that exchange was more conversational than confrontational, things escalate when another officer, Bruce Schmidt, arrives on the scene.

"What's up brother?" the man says to him.

"You're going to jail. You're not my brother," Schmidt replies.

At that point, the officers force the man to put his hands behind his back. A struggle ensues, during which he's tased.

"Can somebody help me?" he screams. "That's my kids right there, my kids are right there!"

After he's restrained, the man, understandably upset, calls the officers "racist motherfuckers" and says, "I didn't do anything wrong, I didn't break any laws and you tase me? That's assault."



The police report says the man was arrested on suspicion of disorderly conduct and obstructing the legal process. Here's the St. Paul PD's official version of events:
Squad 524, M. Johnson/ 526, B. Schmidt were called to the First National Bank Building (332 Minnesota) on a report of uncooperative male refusing to leave. Officers later made contact with this male... who refused to cooperate and would not give his name. He was later arrested for Trespassing, Disorderly Conduct, and Obstructing Legal Process (Citation #620900211109).
The man was charged with trespassing, disorderly conduct, and obstructing the legal process, but those charges were later dropped.

On Twitter, the St. Paul PD's public information officers said no formal complaint has been filed in connection with the incident.

Send your story tips to the author, Aaron Rupar. Follow him on Twitter @atrupar.





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713 comments
GaryGoddmn
GaryGoddmn

I'm glad someone posted
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes
While THE CONSTITUTION does not state an ID requirement, various States have MORE RESTRICTIVE laws which DO require ID and other information. 
 

I.E., the Feds interpretation of "States' rights" to set their own laws (which right wing "libertarians" loudly support) may include *more* restrictions and interventions than Federal Laws or the U.S. Constitution explicitly allows.

Some States say that refusal to provide such information = "law-breaking" directly, while other States legislature a/o courts say or imply that refusal to provide such information = "obstruction", etc., while other States have ruled or implied that such refusal is not legally a violation of any law, it may be *considered* as a factor in the determination to go from "detain" to actual "arrest".

Being stopped by police for a casual conversation -- the article states clearly that the point is fact-gathering at a point when no "reasonable suspicion" or "probable cause" is yet known to the police.

The mere fact that police were *called* to the scene by some business owner or citizen would logically constitute "reasonable suspicion" ... to anyone.  I mean, reasonable suspicion conceptually is a very low bar, and legally a very low bar to justify cops stopping someone to ask questions. A reasonable suspicion can amount to mere conjecture ... which is *legal*.

This only becomes an obvious matter of racial discrimination when cops are routinely and without any cause --- not even a citizen report -- harassing and questioning as "suspicious" only people of a particular race and routinely not questioning people of other races, in the same circumstances.  (This is what civil rights advocates often attempt to show and prove, this *pattern* of discrimination.)

In my reading of these legalities, a single case of stopping and questioning or detaining a black person for "no reason" would NOT be found to be racial discrimination, because police could *ALWAYS* present facts about why a particular person seemed "suspicious".  It would be the *pattern* of questioning people along racial lines that would expose cops to "political" charges of racial discrimination.  Then, such findings could be possibly used as legal defense to a particular arrest, depending on a lawyer's determination of facts.

Absent such determinations of a *pattern* of racial discrimination by a dept or by a specific cop, a person could *not* defend their own case by arguing that THEY were stopped, detained, and then arrested simply because of racial discrimination --- of course, with the exception of police overtly citing "race" during the stop, like using racial epithets.

"Am I free to go?" appears to be a legal question, though the cops' answer may be "no" and that does not yet constitute "arrest", merely detention.  State courts have held that refusal to ID oneself *may* be included with other factors to develop "probable cause" to justify arrest.


Many of these "Constitutional Rights" advocates are getting people in trouble by promoting FALSE INFORMATION to the general public.  By telling people that you have a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to refuse to ID yourself, this is false information if States or municipalities have enacted contrary statutes which are *NOT* considered "unconstitutional" by federal courts.

RageMojo
RageMojo

I hope he becomes a millonare at the St Paul taxpayers expense. Cops treat citizens like enemy combatants. Protect and serve the corporations only. And why are there  chairs at all if people arnt allowed to o use them! Ridiculous, fire that jerk.

cherylkingthegreates
cherylkingthegreates

Tonykeywest - I totally disagree.  This guy was professional and should have been treated fairly.  Your summation as stated by you is wack!

tonykeywest
tonykeywest

I hope he sues and wins. Cops should get informed before arresting someone instead of arresting them and sorting out the facts later.  If this was their beat then why dont they know what is and isnt public space. Someone should deal with the security guard for making a false report.  

freshfaces365
freshfaces365

Reminds me of a time when I was 16 waiting for the bus to come when I watched the Seattle cops make a U-turn and pulled the car up to the sidewalk slamming on the brakes as they nearly hit me. The got out the car and asked me if I had identification... as I reached in my pocket one of the cops reached for his gun and said what's that? looking down I responded its my knee?..as I proceeded to corporate with them gave them my id totally confused I stood there as I heard my name being called over dispatch from the police car... as cars drove by looking at me I never really thought about my rights I only hoped the bus didn't come as they only come every 30 minutes at the bus stop. What happen next was the officer gave me back my high school id and as they walked back to the car a officer looked at ground and said don't liter its a pig stine around here at that moment I realized the pack of whoppers candy id just bought from the store prior to being stopped I opened and threw the corner wrapper to the ground before the cops made the U-turn. That was the reason I was stopped, I guess they never told me why...but as they drove off a white guy in maybe his 20's waiting for the bus looking over with a smile on his face jokingly said I'm glad it wasn't me because I got warrants.


Most agree that I did everything "right" a black male or teen should do .,but the feeling it left behind with me was like Id been violated for absolutely nothing and there  wasn't anything I could do no family, friends just me and the cops it was fear they put in me and now as an adult I just don't trust them they are strangers to me and as your taught when your're young don't trust a stranger.

johngray0
johngray0

Guess the "good" news is that this is not racial in the sense anyone labeled as "suspicious" would get the same treatment.  I mean, once the police have in mind they need to check you out, not handing over ID will put you in same situation, white/black/whatever.  Problem is that being black and normal looking triggers the same suspicion as a crazy wide-eyed spiked hair white dude.  I think if a black man wears a suit and glasses, no problem--he'll fade into the background.  Black + jeans + dreadlocks is risky.  Black+hoodie is begging to be interrogated.

honestvet
honestvet

Minnesota is full of closet racists... as this comment board displays. The most aggressive and staunch closet racists, well, they become police.  I'm ashamed to come from there. Every time I go home, I feel a weird sense I'm surrounded by bigots. 

cherylkingthegreates
cherylkingthegreates

Compare this to the white guy carrying a gun in Ohio (which is legal) and telling the cops of his rights and that he did not have to give his name until they tell him what law he had broken....The cops gave him his gun back and the man went on with his day.  A Black man asking the same questions having done nothing wrong is tasered and taken to jail - IN FRONT OF HIS KIDS.  Man, they don't give a damn about us!

hintikka
hintikka

@jasonbaldridge he was right. the problem _was_ that he was black. terrible and completely expected.

Kirk Bednarchuk
Kirk Bednarchuk

Why not tell them who you are if you have nothing to hide? Just don't give cops a reason to mess with you, yes this was unjust but don't give cops a reason simple.

lokiluck3
lokiluck3

The cops chose poorly, and they need to examine Texas v Brown (1981).

suzannetaylor88
suzannetaylor88

Clearly racist police. What is wrong with these white people.  This reminds me of the 60's. I hope he sues these dysfunctional police people. They have a problem.

g-sarah
g-sarah

"I know my rights, I don't have to tell you who I am if I haven't broken any laws".  I wasn't aware of that law -- only criminals have to identify themselves! Good luck with that. 

TheGuyWriting
TheGuyWriting

@MeganNCPeterson when people refuse a lawful detention, the officers will use force to detain. It's always up to you how things go down.

TheGuyWriting
TheGuyWriting

@MeganNCPeterson if the police have a legal reason to detain you, you must ID yourself. Stop, ID, answer the questions, leave. It's simple.

Yama-x Neutral
Yama-x Neutral

FTP! also F city pages for blurring his face its 2012+2 nothing is protected anymore thanks NSA

HenryFaberMusic
HenryFaberMusic

@MsJezebelJones i did watch the video. What's wrong with telling them who you are? "Hi I'm___, oops sorry I'll move. Thanks sir".

tonykeywest
tonykeywest

@freshfaces365   Like you I have also been in this type of situation , and for the record , Im not black so I wish they would get off the whole racism thing , there is no evidence that it was racially motivated.     After dealing with some lying oathbreaking scum sucking pigs in Key West florida, I swore I would never be put in that position again so I did some research.   If a cop approaches you and speaks to you the first thing you should ask is if you are being detained or are you free to leave.   If you are free to leave you dont have to talk to them any further and should walk away. If you re being detained they must have an articulable  reasonable reason to be detaining you.   In your case you littered , in the case here the guy was accused of trespassing and in my case the pig did not like my exercising my first amendment right by holding a sign on a street corner so made a pretext that someone said I trespassed on private property.  Once they inform you that you are detained you must identify yourself by stating your name.  You are not required to show them ID.  You need to look into the laws of the state you live in but you are prob not required to give them more than that.  If they have evidence that you broke a law they will either arrest you or issue a citation.   The less you talk to them the better. You can give a reasonable account of what you are doing and where you are going to dispell any question that you are about to commit a crime or have committed a crime and then ask if you can leave.  If they see that you know your rights and you are polite and cooperative and are not going to be able to trip you up in your words they will probe let you go. 

tonykeywest
tonykeywest

@johngray0   Minnesota does not have a stop and identify law but they can charge you wiht obstruction or something,  If you are detained and not driving you do NOT have to produce ID.  All you need to do is state your name.  the less you say the better.   this allcould have been avoided if he was educated.   State your name tell them you have broken no laws since the skywalk is public property and tell them you have a legitimate purpose to be there, (wating for your kids) and ask them if you are free to leave.

tonykeywest
tonykeywest

@honestvet   the only bigot here is you.   There is no evidence to support the accusation that this was race motivated. Do you even know if the security guard who started the whole thing was white or black??

jasonbaldridge
jasonbaldridge

@hintikka My wife was just telling me how her mom was harassed by an officer who had been one of her cub scouts. He saw her color first.

moolly74
moolly74

Yes, why not just get rid of all civil rights while we're at it?

freshfaces365
freshfaces365

You think if he gave a name the cops would say thank you sir, and walked away?

texjer
texjer

That's victim blaming.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming


Think about it from his shoes. He senses that he's being racially profiled from the getgo, and calculates that his best odds of getting out of this is by making them realize that they are in the wrong. If the cops were smart they would have realized that they are fucked.  They're going to cost the department and their city an enormous amount of money if they don't drop this harrassment. You look at the amount of money they cost the taxpayer with assault on civilians and wrongful death suits... 


Also, black people have a fear of being imprisoned. We don't. We know that if we act respectful and rarely are required to go to jail. Not true for black people. They have better likelihood if they run. 



m_dzikowski
m_dzikowski

why should anyone have to give a cop their name? if they haven't broken a law, they don't need to know who I am. period.

moolly74
moolly74

@suzannetaylor88 These cops were dicks,  but I think it's interesting that you judge them for their racism and then say something like "What is wrong with these white people". 

bigfish92672
bigfish92672

The key take away is, "I wasn't aware..." Fact is, a crime must have occurred in order for them to ask for ID. If they cannot identify the law that was broken, all interaction is voluntary.

nice
nice

@g-sarah lol read the 4th amendment of the Constitution.

lelandcreecy
lelandcreecy

@TheGuyWriting @MeganNCPeterson Why are you giving up your freedoms so easily.  No laws were broken, it's not a stop and ID state and if your stopped by police constantly for no reason when is it enough.  Never relinquish your hard earned rights as an American citizen.

bigfish92672
bigfish92672

True. In this case, they did not. A reasonable person must believe that a crime has taken place

freshfaces365
freshfaces365

@HenryFaberMusic @MsJezebelJones That only works for certain types of people. In this case he knew what comes next is put your hands behind your back lol. Not have a nice day. Welcome to black America kid.

freshfaces365
freshfaces365

@HenryFaberMusic @MsJezebelJones That only works for certain types of people. In this case he knew what comes next is put your hands behind your back lol. Not have a nice day. Welcome to black America.

freshfaces365
freshfaces365

@HenryFaberMusic @MsJezebelJones That only works for certain types of people. In this case he knew what comes next is put your hands behind your back lol. Not have a nice day. Welcome to black America kid.

MsJezebelJones
MsJezebelJones

@HenryFaberMusic Bullshit. They don't have the right to ask ANY questions if you're not doing wrong. People need to stand up for themselves.

das31
das31

@jwmcmullin According to that map, MN is not a 'stop and identify' state.

tonykeywest
tonykeywest

@m_dzikowski  Wether he broke a law is irrelevant at this point , they were conducting an investigation to see if any laws were broken.  Instead of being polite and talking to them he started wising off.   He was suspected of trespassing so he was being detained.  he should have stopped and politely explained that he was not trespassing, becuase he was waiting for his kids in a public skyway.  Acting like a rebel wont get you anywhere with the police but tazed and in jail. 

ga_lostgirl
ga_lostgirl

@nice @g-sarah You mean there's more amendments than "I can say what I want" and "GUNS GUNS GUNS!!!!"???? Naw... really? I'm gonna have to google this thing called, what did you call it, "Constitution"?

djarnow
djarnow

@lelandcreecy I am curious to know how YOU earned that right? Being born here, or did you actually fight for your hard earned right?

meerkatx
meerkatx

@das31 @jwmcmullin Even in a stop and identify state there still needs to be reasonable suspicion of a crime to ask for identification. Also I didn't look at the map you're referencing but other maps and info suggest that Minnesota is not a stop and identify state.

lelandcreecy
lelandcreecy

@djarnow @lelandcreecy First, who are you.  Second, I don't need to validate anything with you and finally just to shut you the hell up.  I was born here, just like my parents and my parents parents.  I'm a 4 year military vet, just like my dad who is a 7 year military vet and was in the Korean conflict; my grandpa fought in WWII. My family built this country numb nuts. Now what did you do for your rights or have you give them away already?

lelandcreecy
lelandcreecy

@djarnow @lelandcreecy First of all, I don't need to show you my ID or tell you how I earned the rights and freedoms as an American but for those who are curious.  I did both numb nuts, 4 year US Military veteran and I was born here, just like my parents. Dad is a US Army and a US Marine - 7 years total and he's a vet of the Korean conflict.  As a matter of fact my family built this country.  What have you done besides be a fly on the wall?

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